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Old 03-10-2008, 07:09 PM   #1
SRFeldman79
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Default Confusion about Mash Requirement - Munich

Anyone care to try to clear this confusion up?
I've been told that Munich does not require 2-row to convert to fermentable sugars, by a HBS employee, but I noticed on the Malt Chart in the HBT wiki that it says mash required.
Just curious since I made a beer where either it did not convert or I got less out of the LME than I expected and the converted Munich made up the difference almost perfectably (i.e. I aimed for 1.056, got 1.042, should have gotten about that from the 6lbs of amber LME, but its always possible I got less and got to about 1.042 from the 1lb of munich that was mashed with crystal 55L and victory).

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Old 03-10-2008, 07:11 PM   #2
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I do not understand the question. I don't think anything requires 2 row to be rendered fermentable.

Mash means that you keep the grain at 149-154F or so for 45 minutes to an hour. 2 row requires that also.

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Old 03-10-2008, 07:15 PM   #3
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I know that Munich "can" convert itself, but I've noticed from brews where Munich is my base malt that my efficiencies are significantly lower. Whenever I use a significant amount of Munich now, I make sure there's some 2-row or 6-row also to help the conversion.

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Old 03-10-2008, 07:18 PM   #4
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cheezydemon - i didnt mean two row specifically, but my understanding is that some grains can't convert themselves and require something with the proper enzymes, such as 2 row or 6 row.

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Old 03-10-2008, 07:18 PM   #5
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I made an all-munich porter, and the only thing I noticed was a higher than average FG. My efficiency was fine, and there was no 2- or 6-row in there.

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Old 03-10-2008, 07:24 PM   #6
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Munich has plenty of diastatic power (and then some) to convert its own starches into fermentable sugars. However, you have to mash it to achieve that conversion.


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Old 03-10-2008, 07:31 PM   #7
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yeah, see, i thought it didnt have diastatic power because of Papazian, and thus i need to mash it with something that does.

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Old 03-10-2008, 07:31 PM   #8
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Be careful though, you really should look up the individual Maltster's numbers for Diastatic power.

The rough way that I understand it is when you have numbers around 100 Lintner they do a fair job at self conversion and can help along other malts with less power, even more so with things that go over 100. Where you should take not is if you have a high percentage malt with below 80. What this really means (as I understand it) is that it would theoretically convert given enough time even if your numbers are low and much more rapidly when the numbers are high.

The trick to this is that you have to have an apparatus (usually direct fired mash tun) to keep the enzymes in their sweet spot for the length of time necessary (and observe pH levels). I'd imagine there is some lower cutoff of the amount of enzymes necessary in the malt, but it's probably a combination of factors. I really don't know if they become spent persay or if they still continue working just very slowly? Phil would probably know, I'll ask him.

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Old 03-10-2008, 07:33 PM   #9
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Sounds like the confusion is in the wording. Munich will convert itself in a mash as your HBS stated. Mash required on the chart appears to indicate that it must be mashed and not steeped lke in an extract+steeping grains recipe. If you wanted Munich in your extract recipe you would want to look for Munich extract. Since you're doing a partial mash though it's probably not relevant.

Maybe if you post up some more details on your recipe someone will chime in on the effcieny trouble.

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Old 03-10-2008, 07:42 PM   #10
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i mashed this:

1 lb munich
1 lb victory
1 lb crystal 55L
2 oz roasted barley
2 oz chocolate

did it in a pot at 158 or so degrees for about 45 minutes. Am i misunderstanding mashing and there's more to it than keeping the temperature up and stirring constantly? Ran a little hot i suppose... According to my HBS, should have gotten about 1.017 out of that, and about 42 out of the 6lbs of amber LME i added to that for the boil.

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