Spike Brewing 12.5 Conical Fermenter Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > Cold break with CF chiller?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-01-2006, 08:19 PM   #1
barside laundry
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: lancaster, pa
Posts: 62
Default Cold break with CF chiller?

Question #12

I just brewed my 4th all-grain batch last night. A 21 pound grain bill Imperial Oatmeal Stout I brew will all electric in my basement and I have a counter flow chiller (3/8) i.d. As I watch for 34 minutes, my wort slowly drain from my keggle I thought: quickly chilling the wort results is a cold break that brings protiens to the bottom of the kettle but is that occuring with a counter flow? And if so is the cold break ending up in my fermenter? Do I even know what cold break means/is? Should I go back to an immersion chiller in the kettle and us the copper coil from the c/f as a pre chiller in a bucket of ice? That would help a lot, I would think.

Thanks ahead of time.

__________________
Tap 1 (stout faucet w/ nitrogen): Trout's Oatmeal Stout

Tap 2: none

Primary: Bavarian Dunkel
Secondary: Victory Hop Devil

"That rug really tied the room together, did it not?"
barside laundry is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-01-2006, 08:41 PM   #2
kaptain_karma
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
kaptain_karma's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 306
Default

Yes, your cfc creates a cold break, and it does end up in your fermenter. The cold break contains some beneficial junk for your yeast, so it's good to have it in your fermenter as long as you don't leave your beer in the primary too long.

__________________
kaptain_karma is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-01-2006, 09:13 PM   #3
david_42
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
david_42's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Willamina & Oak Grove, Oregon, USA
Posts: 25,651
Liked 133 Times on 126 Posts

Default

Cold break in the fermenter is a normal result of using a counter flow chiller. It's just more proteins. The pros use a whirlpool to remove some of it, but as kk says, it really isn't a problem, what the yeast don't eat ends up in the trub.

__________________

Remember one unassailable statistic, as explained by the late, great George Carlin: "Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!"

"I would like to die on Mars, just not on impact." Elon Musk

david_42 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-01-2006, 10:46 PM   #4
barside laundry
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: lancaster, pa
Posts: 62
Default

Thanks for the help guys.

__________________
Tap 1 (stout faucet w/ nitrogen): Trout's Oatmeal Stout

Tap 2: none

Primary: Bavarian Dunkel
Secondary: Victory Hop Devil

"That rug really tied the room together, did it not?"
barside laundry is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-04-2006, 02:56 AM   #5
Musthavbeer
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 60
Default

I was using a counterflow chiller, doing fine and then I went to 10 gallon batches. The wort must be chilled to below 140F within 20 mins or you get DMS. With 10 gals it took to long, so I made a whirpool immersion chiller out of 60' of 1/2" copper. The wort is below 140 in 2 mins. to 65 in about 10.

__________________
Musthavbeer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-05-2006, 03:30 PM   #6
Lil' Sparky
Cowboys EAC
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Lil' Sparky's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 4,013
Liked 49 Times on 32 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Musthavbeer
I was using a counterflow chiller, doing fine and then I went to 10 gallon batches. The wort must be chilled to below 140F within 20 mins or you get DMS. With 10 gals it took to long, so I made a whirpool immersion chiller out of 60' of 1/2" copper. The wort is below 140 in 2 mins. to 65 in about 10.
If that's true, then how does a brewery solve this problem with much larger volumes they have to cool? They don't have big immersion chillers to cool everything at once. Don't they usually run their beer through a plate chiller (same concept as a CFC)?
__________________
Lil' Sparky is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-05-2006, 03:55 PM   #7
Monster Mash
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Castaic, CA
Posts: 1,322
Liked 85 Times on 66 Posts
Likes Given: 12

Default

Yes, breweries use plate chillers and it takes time to cool it down. I brew 25 gallon batches and I use a CFC because an IC isn't efficient enough for large volumes.

Why would you get DMS from using a CFC?

__________________
My 1BBL Brewery Pics
Monster Mash is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-05-2006, 10:24 PM   #8
D*Bo
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: North Attleboro, MA
Posts: 459
Default

What is DMS?

And what is a whiirlpoool immersion chiller?


Thanks,
D*Bo

__________________
PrimaryBaltica 9
Secondary British all Amarillo IPA, Calypso
Conditioning Decoction maddness, FlyingJess Ale
Drinking Oatmeal Chocolate Stout, Oaked Bourbon Chocolate Stout, Dry Mead)
Up NextScottish ale and Dopple Bock

Always ready for the wack snack attack, I carry sandwiches around in a straight edge style JanSports backpack.

Support your local businesses
D*Bo is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-06-2006, 01:27 AM   #9
Musthavbeer
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 60
Default

Dimethyl Sulfide
Description: Tastes and smells of cooked vegetables/corn/cabbage or shellfish/seafood. Is acceptable in light lagers to a degree.

Cause: Bacterial infection can cause DMS, as well as covering up your brewpot during the boil. DMS is removed from the wort during the boil, so covering it up is obviously going to cause the DMS-laced condensation to fall back into your brewpot.

Remedy: Keep good sanitation procedures, and make sure to keep a rolling, uncovered boil when brewing. Do not cover your brewpot during the boil!


DMS production. When the boil is turned off the DMS is not being blown off and is still being produced. Using a IC the entire volume of beer is being cooled. With an CFC the wort is staying neer boiling temps until it has passed through the chilling coil. If you whirlpool and wait 10. 15, 20 or even 30 minutes for the hot break to drop then you are building up DMS in your wort that entire time

Whirlpool Immersion chiller: http://www.mrmalty.com

__________________

Serving:

A lot

Musthavbeer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-06-2006, 03:14 AM   #10
Lil' Sparky
Cowboys EAC
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Lil' Sparky's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 4,013
Liked 49 Times on 32 Posts

Default

Yeah, I've read that same post on the whirlpool IC, but seriously, that's just one guy's opinion, and I'm not sure what would qualify him as an expert - even if he does try to talk like one.

I still haven't got a good answer on how the breweries do it without generating all this bad DMS... From what I've seen on even the small to mid-sized breweries, it takes a while to run their beer through the plate chillers, and they don't seem worried about it, and they end up w/ good beer in the end.

I just purchased a CFC and plan to use my IC as a pre-chiller to get the water running through the CFC very cold. I think I'll be able to have a pretty good flow rate from the brew kettle that way. I'm going this route because I'll be doing 10 gal batches now and I wanted a way to cool the wort more efficiently.

__________________
Lil' Sparky is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hot Break & Cold Break Doc Thirst All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 25 09-03-2010 01:29 AM
Counterflow chiller, no cold break? Trubadour Equipment/Sanitation 1 05-04-2009 02:04 PM
cold break docmoran All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 2 03-28-2009 03:29 PM
Cold break... KatoKiyo All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 3 01-23-2008 05:14 PM
cold break/ hot break joejaz Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 7 01-05-2008 03:25 PM