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Old 06-14-2014, 06:09 PM   #11
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So you're telling me that you think you can taste a difference between filtered and de-chlorinated water that doesn't have major issues (I'm talking about issues that would be noticeable without testing) vs. water with all of these additions?


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Considering hes a National BJCP judge and wrote the most popular tool on the internet for water and is a water engineer, im going to guess yes he will know the difference

Yes it does make things taste different, its just as easy to screw up your flavor profile with water additions as it is to help it. Hell one day when i wasnt paying attention i did a pale water profile(high sulfate) for a ESB...ended up totally killing the crystal malt profile and it just tastes like a hoppy pale ale now lo...oops.

Your beer is almost entirely water, what you put in it does matter.
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Old 06-14-2014, 06:11 PM   #12
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I don't particularly care if he's Aquaman...the offer stands. Yes, beer is almost entirely water. However, the particular water chemistry isn't nearly as important, with the exception of chlorine, as is the taste of the water.

He's got more riding on getting it wrong than I do.


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Old 06-14-2014, 06:44 PM   #13
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Water chemistry is important and can make a good beer an excellent beer. With that said, there are a lot of new brewers that start to worry about water chemistry before the basics like fermentation temps, recipe, pitch rates, boil etc.

I have brewed about 15 all grain batches and am now feeling comfortable with my process. I left water as the last piece to tweak. Send a sample to Ward labs for a test, that will be more informative that a water report since that is just an average of samples and your house water could be significantly different than the average.


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Old 06-14-2014, 07:09 PM   #14
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I don't particularly care if he's Aquaman...the offer stands. Yes, beer is almost entirely water. However, the particular water chemistry isn't nearly as important, with the exception of chlorine, as is the taste of the water.

He's got more riding on getting it wrong than I do.


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Take it easy and show some very due respect. You're talking to one of the most well regarded brewing water experts in the country. He doesn't have jack riding on some challenge some internet yahoo throws out.

If you think this water stuff is overblown, move on and leave threads about water alone.

If you're just here to pooh-pooh those of us who put a great deal of importance on their water chemistry, you need to move on to a topic that doesn't bring out your inner-troll.

Edit: In all fairness, your first post on the subject was well taken. If the OP is just looking for a do-it, don't do-it answer. Then yeah, treat for the chlorine and do it. If you find you're having efficiency issues, or astringency issues, or issues with other tannins, or issues with bringing out hop character, or want to brew that Helles...it might be time to take a deeper look at the water. But rest assured. If you brew the style with the right water profile, you're well ahead of the competition that's just using whatever water comes from the tap without adjusting.
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Old 06-14-2014, 07:45 PM   #15
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Take it easy and show some very due respect. You're talking to one of the most well regarded brewing water experts in the country. He doesn't have jack riding on some challenge some internet yahoo throws out.



If you think this water stuff is overblown, move on and leave threads about water alone.



If you're just here to pooh-pooh those of us who put a great deal of importance on their water chemistry, you need to move on to a topic that doesn't bring out your inner-troll.

I figured with a handle like GotPushrods, he was a mechanic of some sort. Either way, I am "here" because all indications are that doing all of this water stuff, other than filtering and de-chlorinating, doesn't make a difference. Someone argued the point, and I offered to let them prove me wrong. I had a friend who used to do this, but he once ran out of some supplies one time and decided to just forgo all of the water additions. It was a great beer, and so I began to think about a few things. The obvious being, "Do these additions make enough of a difference to be worth it? Can I tell when I build a water profile and when I don't?" A less obvious question that I've not seen addressed here was, "How often should I have my water tested?" I know that in my old town, 100% of the water came from a river. Do the minerals and everything else in that water stay constant?

I want proof that all of these adjustments make a difference that can be perceived in terms of what a human can perceive (taste, mouthfeel, etc.). If that's trolling, then I'm guilty as charged. I have no doubt that the chemistry is different (and possibly even vastly different in some cases). That's not the issue. Do those differences relate to a difference in taste of the beer when they don't also correspond to a difference in taste of the water? In other words, if we can't detect a difference in how the water tastes, can we detect that difference when it becomes beer?

I'd say that the ability for one of the "most well regarded brewing water experts in the country" to properly identify a beer brewed with treated water versus one without it would confirm that there is indeed a difference that can be perceived. I like to think I have a good palate (as I'm sure we all do), and I can't tell a difference. Since I have a sort of bias on the issue and knew which half of the batch was brewed with water that had been built up and which half used water that had not when we tried it, I have to be honest and admit that my own comparisons don't matter.

However, several of my other brewing buddies--including a couple who have gone pro and actually distribute their beer--took this "challenge" as well and they didn't know which was which. One of them, a relatively new brewer, got it right. Only one beer out of six that we had everyone sample was "different," and I'm pretty sure the guy who chose the correct one was just lucky.

The question, again, isn't whether the chemistry is different. The question is whether it affects the taste to the point that it can be perceived by us humans.


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Old 06-15-2014, 06:04 PM   #16
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Either way, I am "here" because all indications are that doing all of this water stuff, other than filtering and de-chlorinating, doesn't make a difference.
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If that's trolling, then I'm guilty as charged.
Pretty much says it all right there.

All done!
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Old 06-15-2014, 06:07 PM   #17
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Pretty much says it all right there.



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No, it doesn't. I've asked for proof, and no one who believes there is a noticeable difference has ever been able or willing to provide it. When you or anyone else wants to take me up on my blind test offer, be sure to let me know. I won't hold my breath.


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Old 06-15-2014, 06:11 PM   #18
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Hey Petrol Spice. Sorry you got threadjacked. Hope you got your answer. PM me if you want any help.

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