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Old 01-18-2011, 02:36 PM   #21
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I don't believe that "X yeast is X's" when it comes to brewing Belgian beers. Read Brew Like A Monk. These beers are not produced using homebrewing methods. They are sometimes given multiple yeasts, and treated to different temps. I also just read a magazine article where a grad of U.C. Davis recalled his attempt to isolate Chimay yeast, with very poor results.

I believe that 530 is more likely to produce the results I'm seeking.
Where to start... the yeast did in fact come from the listed breweries but over time they may or may not have tweaked the stock
(chimay did 20+yrs ago?)

Anybody can reculture Chimay yeast from the bottles, it depends on the freshness of bottle.

WLP530 -WY3787 is Westmalle

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But I don't consider Chimay to be fruity at all compared to other belgians.
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All I meant is that I would never let it reach 82. I have a good ferm chamber but I'd start at 64 and ramp up to 72. .
Then your tastebuds are missing the well known properties of that yeast and it doesn't need to get that warm to be fruity.
Dark fruit,fig,plums,ect are just some of the aromas of Chimay yeast.





Here is some info:
http://www.whitebeertravels.co.uk/chimay.html


Michael Jackson - The Beer Hunter Vols (torrent)
http://btjunkie.org/torrent/Michael-Jackson-The-Beer-Hunter-Vols-1-2-amp-3/44324b4c21caafa2e4a09ae9298416b3b6e12ba13dba


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Old 01-18-2011, 03:15 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Houblon View Post
Where to start... the yeast did in fact come from the listed breweries but over time they may or may not have tweaked the stock
(chimay did 20+yrs ago?)

Anybody can reculture Chimay yeast from the bottles, it depends on the freshness of bottle.

WLP530 -WY3787 is Westmalle




Then your tastebuds are missing the well known properties of that yeast and it doesn't need to get that warm to be fruity.
Dark fruit,fig,plums,ect are just some of the aromas of Chimay yeast.





Here is some info:
http://www.whitebeertravels.co.uk/chimay.html


Michael Jackson - The Beer Hunter Vols (torrent)
http://btjunkie.org/torrent/Michael-Jackson-The-Beer-Hunter-Vols-1-2-amp-3/44324b4c21caafa2e4a09ae9298416b3b6e12ba13dba
Some people think that fruitiness = banana, and I hate banana. For example, Leffe tastes disgusting to me. Just a personal preference. I have no doubt that Chimay has those flavors you just described. And I have no doubt that fermenting it at a lower temperature will produce less fruitiness. I'm familiar with this concept. My only experience with belgian yeast is 550, and as promised it was a less fruity belgian yeast. I enjoyed it a lot. So I figured, why not try a less fruity Trappist ale yeast? I definitely notice the flavors you described in chimay red, but it's not in-your-face.

If a few of you with experience could promise me that using 500, along with proper technique and temp control (start at 64 ramp up to 72) I could brew a beer like Chimay Red with subtle fruitiness, I'll give it a shot. Like I said, before I had a ferm chamber I got "fruity" off-flavors in my beer so I'm very wary of trying anything described as fruity. No homophobe.

Anyways, going to order the stuff soon so if you can seriously vouch for 500, I'll try it. Otherwise I think I might be best off with 530 because if worst comes to worst, it will just be lacking a little fruit flavor.


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Old 01-18-2011, 03:39 PM   #23
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For example, Leffe tastes disgusting to me. Just a personal preference.
Leffe sucks
I hate that beer, always have LOL


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Originally Posted by rexbanner View Post
chimay red clone
The topic is about brewing a chimay red clone, well you need to use the right yeast which is Chimay yeast.



That said I like wlp530 - wyeast3787 for dark Belgian beers best.
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Old 01-18-2011, 03:49 PM   #24
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Leffe sucks
I hate that beer, always have LOL



The topic is about brewing a chimay red clone, well you need to use the right yeast which is Chimay yeast.



That said I like wlp530 - wyeast3787 for dark Belgian beers best.
Well you sound like you know your way around brewing Belgian beers, so I'll try using 500. Any recipe advice?
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Old 01-18-2011, 04:44 PM   #25
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Not really as I only do 1-2 dark beers per yr, my speciality is blonds,triples,saison,ect with a few APA/IPA beers for my hop fix.

Lastyrsbrews


Very good forums>
http://www.babblebelt.com/newboard/forum.html?tid=1108752780&pg=1
http://forum.northernbrewer.com/
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php#1


More info on yeast:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/whats-your-favorite-belgian-strain-why-216503/

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Old 01-18-2011, 05:10 PM   #26
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Not really as I only do 1-2 dark beers per yr, my speciality is blonds,triples,saison,ect with a few APA/IPA beers for my hop fix.

Lastyrsbrews


Very good forums>
http://forum.northernbrewer.com/
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php#1


More info on yeast:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/whats-your-favorite-belgian-strain-why-216503/
Ok, should I listen to you or not? Cause saisons and tripels are Belgian beers.

I think I'm just gonna do my own thing. I'll reply to this thread when I'm done, ~2 months. Whether or not it turns out like Chimay, hopefully I'll just have a good dubbel.
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Old 01-18-2011, 05:32 PM   #27
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...my speciality is blonds,triples,saison,ect...
sort of

Houblon,
One of those articles you linked above mentions the Doree. I'll be brewing a Belgian Pale Ale as a 'starter' batch for a Grand Reserve clone soon and thought trying to 'clone' Doree would be fun.

This is what I gathered from that article:
Same grains as the red (but no 'malt extract' which I'm guessing is the Sinamar?)
OG = 10 Plato and is 4.8% ABV (which is like 92% attenuation and a FG of 1.003)
Has coriander and curacao orange peel.
Also seems they use some caramel malt(s) based on this comment; "Note that once a feed hopper is installed that will allow the segregation of Caramalt, the malt responsible for the color of Chimay Red and Blue, malt extract will no longer be used in the brews and will thus not appear on the labels."

Hmmm, are they segregating two or more different caramalts or segregating the caramalt from the pils malt?

Have you had Doree? What color is it? Does 92% attenuation sound reasonable? Any tips on hops or amount of spices?

So it seems like fermentables would simply be something like Pils/Caramel ??L (??%)/Wheat (~12%)/Sugar (~5%). Any guesses on the color and amount of 'caramalt'?
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:32 AM   #28
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Have you had Doree? What color is it? Does 92% attenuation sound reasonable? Any tips on hops or amount of spices?

So it seems like fermentables would simply be something like Pils/Caramel ??L (??%)/Wheat (~12%)/Sugar (~5%). Any guesses on the color and amount of 'caramalt'?


Never sampled & had to do a google:

Chimay Dorée (Golden), 4.8% abv ale, brewed from very similar ingredients as the Red, but paler and spiced differently. It is a patersbier, intended only to be drunk at the abbey or at the nearby inn Auberge de Poteaupré, which is associated with the abbey. The monks themselves drink this variety rather than the stronger three. The Dorée is not sold commercially and the rare bottles which make their way out are through unofficial sources. Even the brewery's own web site makes no mention of this variety.

-
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/215/1811
-

OldSock: post Jun 29 2008, 07:07 AM

BLAM puts it at 1.040, 8 SRM, 16 IBU, 87% AA, spiced with bitter orange and coriander. It is about the same color as the White, so I would go with mostly pils, but with a lower gravity a touch of caravienna/caramunich might be needed to give it a bit more color. The attenuation is only 1-2% less than their other beers, so I would still add ~10% sugar to get it to finish around 1.005. Ferment with WLP500 or Wyeast 1214.

http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=94923&mode=linearplus
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:42 AM   #29
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Ok, should I listen to you or not? Cause saisons and tripels are Belgian beers.

.
I'll keep pointing in the right direction but its your beer. How many fermentors do you have? I would tell you to split the wort & use different yeast in each fermentor.
(I did this a few yrs ago with whitelabs 5 belgian yeast-5 fermentors 1 wort)

The best way to learn is do your own testing, that way You know first hand what each yeast brings to the table.

Just keep a open mind.
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Old 01-19-2011, 02:13 PM   #30
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Thanks Houblon. Just having the color helps trying to figure out the crystal malt(s). Seems there has to be a relatively dark crystal malt in there; even a full pound of caravienne doesn't get it up to 8 SRM (1/2 lb caravienne and 1/4 lb special B yields ~8 SRM).

I'll prob try something like (5.25 gal @ 75% BHE):
5# Belg Pils
.5# caravienne
.25# special B
1# Wheat malt
2.5 oz sauermalz (for mash pH)
.5# cane sugar (6.7%)
.5 oz coriander seed, coarsely crushed
.5 oz Curacao bitter orange peel
Belgian Saaz to ~16 IBU
Chimay yeast

I still can't get the numbers to align, 1.040 @ 87% AA doesn't yield 4.8% ABV by my calcs. I'll prob bump the OG up a tiny bit and kind of 'split the difference'.



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