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Old 01-30-2013, 06:21 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by MBTB
All malt is cheaper and tastes better too. If you buy 2-row in bulk, you can almost always get it for under $1.00 a pound. The only issue then would be crushing it (you would also need a mill). But with all grain brewing, thats the best way.
Where do you guys find this sub-1.00 grain at!? I can only ever find it around 1.20 cheapest and then usually 20 for shipping on a super day.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:15 AM   #12
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Depends on location grain is that cheap near Chilton And few other places back when I lived in Wisconsin

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Old 01-30-2013, 10:49 AM   #13
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Where do you guys find this sub-1.00 grain at!? I can only ever find it around 1.20 cheapest and then usually 20 for shipping on a super day.
---------
Check out MaltBuyTheBag's web site for what appears
to be good pricing. I've saved a link to his site and
may buy from him when time to restock. Shipping
costs ($18/bag) to me almost, but not quite , spoil
the deal.

I usually drive 30-miles round trip, pay $39/2-row,
$45/MO, and invest 2-hours time for my grain.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:13 AM   #14
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Try tractor supply. Feed corn is dirt cheap under $.30 /pound. You may need to pick through it for foreign material but it should work just fine.

If I was looking for corn on the cheap that I was going to boil 2x's , that's where I'd go.

Of corse you'll have to remove " we only use the freshest ingredients..." from your labels

*edit. - ok; I lied, I don't think I would ever buy feed corn for my beers. -as you were.

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Old 01-30-2013, 12:58 PM   #15
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Try walmart. Instant grits are dang cheap and do the same thing as flaked corn.

On a side note though toss in a couple of handfuls of rice hulls to make sparging easier
Lets make sure I understand the question; You're looking for corn to add to the mash to lighten the beer and reduce the cost. The purpose of mashing corn is to rinse the sugar from the flaked grains. Would the same thing not be accomplished (if cheap is the purpose) by tossing in a couple bottles of corn syrup instead? What is the difference between the two?
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:35 PM   #16
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Lets make sure I understand the question; You're looking for corn to add to the mash to lighten the beer and reduce the cost. The purpose of mashing corn is to rinse the sugar from the flaked grains. Would the same thing not be accomplished (if cheap is the purpose) by tossing in a couple bottles of corn syrup instead? What is the difference between the two?
Dang you made me think and so early in the morning.

OK so I researched corn syrup and came up with this from wikki

Quote:
Corn syrup is a food syrup, which is made from the starch of maize and contains varying amounts of maltose and higher oligosaccharides, depending on the grade. Corn syrup is used in foods to soften texture, add volume, prevent crystallization of sugar, and enhance flavor. Corn syrup is distinct from high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS), which is created when corn syrup undergoes enzymatic processing, producing a sweeter compound that contains higher levels of fructose.

The more general term glucose syrup is often used synonymously with corn syrup, since glucose syrup is in the United States most commonly made from corn starch.[1][2] Technically, glucose syrup is any liquid starch hydrolysate of mono-, di-, and higher-saccharides and can be made from any source of starch; wheat, tapioca and potatoes are the most common other sources.[3][4][5]
The way I read it most times what we buy as corn syrup is not always made from corn but wheat, tapioca and potatoes. It does not have the enzymes to mash by its self but neither does instant grits hence the reason to limit the amount in the mash.

I also think that the grits impart a flavor that you would not get from the syrup. And I have to wonder at the cost of both. I know instant grits are dirt cheap and do not know the cost of the syrup.

This is of course talking out my butt because I think the big breweries do use a rice syrup.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:55 PM   #17
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I've used 1.5 lbs of grits in a 10 gallon batch before, along with other adjuncts (oats, potatoes(!), maple syrup) and the conversion was complete at 90 minutes. I did have a hard time with the run-off, but that's because of the high amount of adjuncts.

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Old 01-30-2013, 01:59 PM   #18
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I've used 1.5 lbs of grits in a 10 gallon batch before, along with other adjuncts (oats, potatoes(!), maple syrup) and the conversion was complete at 90 minutes. I did have a hard time with the run-off, but that's because of the high amount of adjuncts.

MC
Living in the land of potatoes one would think that I would have a awesome spud beer recipe but I have never tried it. I sure would like to though sometime.

My grain bill consists of 6 pd 2 row and 3 pd adjunct grains. I have never had to mash for more than about 45 minutes to get full conversion. But I stir often during the mash so maybe that helps
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:15 PM   #19
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Dang you made me think and so early in the morning.

OK so I researched corn syrup and came up with this from wikki



The way I read it most times what we buy as corn syrup is not always made from corn but wheat, tapioca and potatoes. It does not have the enzymes to mash by its self but neither does instant grits hence the reason to limit the amount in the mash.

I also think that the grits impart a flavor that you would not get from the syrup. And I have to wonder at the cost of both. I know instant grits are dirt cheap and do not know the cost of the syrup.

This is of course talking out my butt because I think the big breweries do use a rice syrup.
The purpose of the mash is to convert starch to sugar. If its already fermentable sugar, (corn surup) enzyme action is not required. Just toss it into the boil. No?
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:22 PM   #20
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Hi,

My LHBS sells flaked corn at $1.80/lb, his cheapest 2-row is at $1.45/lb.

I thought corn was used partly to lighten the body, partly to bring down costs, ...
No, that's a myth that has been proven to be historically inaccurate.

In order to use those adjuncts you have to process them separately from the rest of the mash, and then add it to the mash. You either have to do a cereal mash to pr-gelatinize them or you have to roll them with heat to make them flaked (the flaked corn you're referring to)...either way, besides the labor and energy involved to grow and harvest those plants, you expend labor and energy to make them usuable. You have to boil them in a cereal mash. That's another couple hours of labor and energy involved in the cost of the product. Same with making the HFCS ad rice syrup solids they use today....It still has to be processed before it makes it to the beer.

Maureen Ogle proved in Ambitious Brew, that when AH released Budweiser with it's corn and rice adjuncts in the 1860's it was the most expensive beer out there; a single bottle retailed for $1.00 (what would equal in today's Dollars for $17.00) this was quite difference when a schooner of beer usually cost a nickel.

Corn wasn't used to "save money" or "cut costs" like so many beersnobs like to think to make them feel superior to bmc drinkers. It was done because heavy beers (both english style Ales and the heavier Bavarian malty beers) were not being drunk by American consumers any more. Beer initally was seen around the world as food (some even called it liquid bread), but since America, even in the 1800's was a prosperous nation compared to the rest of the world, and americans ate meat with nearly every meal, heavy beers had fallen out of favor...

And American 6-row Barley just made for heavy, hazy beer.

Bush and other German Brewers started looking at other styles of Beers, and came upon Karl Balling and Anton Schwartz's work at the Prague Polytechnic Institute with the Brewers in Bohemia who when faced with a grain shortage started using adjuncts, which produced the pils which was light, sparkly and fruity tasting...just the thing for American tastebuds.

So the brewers brought Schwartz to America where he went to work for American Brewer Magazine writing articles and technical monographs, teaching American brewers how to use Rice and Corn...
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