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Old 04-24-2008, 02:04 AM   #1
danotts
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Default carboy curds??

I brewed my first all grain batch this past weekend. It's been happily fermenting away for 3 days, and is almost done. It's a Koelsch using mostly Weyermann pilsner malt, a bit of wheat malt, and WLP-029 koelsch yeast from a starter (1.2 oz Perle boiling, and 1 oz. Spalt aroma). I used a single infusion mash at 147 F for one hour. The one thing that I think is "wierd" about this batch is that I used 2 tsp of Polyclar Brewbrite, a PVPP/carageenan mix in the last 15 min of the boil to help clarify the beer. I don't have much experience with this fining agent.

I've brewed a similar recipe before using a partial mash technique. After 2 years of homebrewing, I've never seen these type of curds before. I hope the image shows up. If it doesn't, the curds are grey-ish, about the size of coarse cottage cheese curds, and they were floating at the top of the carboy with the high krauesen up until today (the 3rd day of fermentation at 70 F). Now they are resting at the bottom of the carboy, above the white yeast layer.

I must say the green beer looks quite clear. through the carboy wall. Any feedback from the homebrewtalk community on what these curds might be? I noticed similar curds in the boiling wort. Is this just coagulated protein? Thanks in advance for your feedback.

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Old 04-24-2008, 03:35 AM   #2
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Wow that's what I call flocking. It's sure doing it's job.

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Old 04-24-2008, 04:06 AM   #3
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Expect some clear beer.

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Old 04-24-2008, 04:13 AM   #4
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I thought polyclar was used in secondary. Is it done? whats your hydrometer say?

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Old 04-24-2008, 05:45 AM   #5
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I just had a Lager do that . I think it has something to do with rest temp. I did a step mash and then rested at 149' . But , I also used Irish moss in the last 15 so it could be a fining deal. My beer looked exactly like that though with the yeast layer below the curds. I just remember that I also used Weyermann Pilsner malt in my Lager, about 80% of the grain bill.

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Old 04-24-2008, 10:36 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littlehop
I thought polyclar was used in secondary. Is it done? whats your hydrometer say?
Pure polyclar (PVPP) is typically used in a secondary. It binds to polyphenols and precipitates them to the bottom of the carboy. Polyphenols are one of two primary components that cause chill haze.

Polyclar Brewbrite is used in the boil kettle (similarly to irish moss) to clarify wort (and ultimately the beer). It contains PVPP to get rid of polyphenols. It also contains kappa carageenan (the active component of irish moss). This binds to proteins and causes them to precipitate out. The link from the manufacturer below tells all about it.

http://www.ispcorp.com/products/beverage/content/brochure/polybrew/PolyclarBrewbrite.pdf

I'd say it definitely helped, but at a recommended usage level of 10-20 g per hectoliter (26 gallons), I guess I was questioning my use of 2 tsp. I am assuming that is close to the 1 to 2 g I should have used...
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Old 04-24-2008, 01:17 PM   #7
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That is just yeast flocculating and settling out, like WBC said. You'll find that every yeast flocs a little differently.


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Old 04-24-2008, 03:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danotts
Pure polyclar (PVPP) is typically used in a secondary. It binds to polyphenols and precipitates them to the bottom of the carboy. Polyphenols are one of two primary components that cause chill haze.

Polyclar Brewbrite is used in the boil kettle (similarly to irish moss) to clarify wort (and ultimately the beer). It contains PVPP to get rid of polyphenols. It also contains kappa carageenan (the active component of irish moss). This binds to proteins and causes them to precipitate out. The link from the manufacturer below tells all about it.

http://www.ispcorp.com/products/beverage/content/brochure/polybrew/PolyclarBrewbrite.pdf

I'd say it definitely helped, but at a recommended usage level of 10-20 g per hectoliter (26 gallons), I guess I was questioning my use of 2 tsp. I am assuming that is close to the 1 to 2 g I should have used...
The same polyphenols that are a flavor compound in Belgians? Say no to polyclar!
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:48 AM   #9
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Default Update on the carboy curds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glibbidy
Expect some clear beer.
Yeah, no kidding. Today, I pulled the primary out of my temperature-controlled freezer (70 F), and I could almost see across the room through the carboy! It was truly beautiful. The f.g. was spot on (4.6 % ABV), and the flavor profile is where it should be for a Koelsch at this stage (a little sulfury).

I emailed White Labs with a picture of the curds, and this is the response I got (not too surprising):

"Dan,

Thank you for your inquiry. I forwarded your photo to our lab manager, and neither of us have seen this yeast look like this. There might be something else in there besides yeast. And possibly, the look could be due to the method used for the starter which caused too much aeration for too many days. While it is difficult to say the cause, it does not look normal for this strain,

Cheers!"

So, for the benefit of anyone else who has the opportunity to use Polyclar Brewbrite, I'm quite convinced that the carboy curds were an effect of the 2 tsp I used in the boil, and were the "something else" noted by White Labs. There was no evidence of a spoiled fermentation, and the beer was ultra-clear coming out of the primary. I'm really looking forward to the final product in a couple of weeks.

Curd up, yo!
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Old 05-20-2008, 01:06 AM   #10
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Default The end result...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glibbidy View Post
Expect some clear beer.
Just to sum up this thread, here is a picture of the end result: a true to style Koelsch at 4.6% ABV, with a characteristic dry mouthfeel, and Spalt aroma and flavor. All in all, it's the most delicious batch of homebrew I've made to date, and look at the clarity.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25955335@N04/2506562695

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Last edited by danotts; 05-20-2008 at 01:09 AM. Reason: messed up image
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