Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Last Sponsor Giveaway of the Year!

Come Enter the BrewDeals/FastFerment Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > Carapils is cheating . . . isn't it?
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-18-2013, 10:59 PM   #1
GinSlinger
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ypsilanti, MI
Posts: 151
Liked 8 Times on 8 Posts
Likes Given: 15

Default Carapils is cheating . . . isn't it?

I've searched, and found some threads touching on this but nothing directly.

So, is Carapils cheating in the quest for rocky head formation?

I love Denny's Rye, and marvel at the head on it from 3% Carapils and 3% wheat. But, I kind of feel like that's cheating (no offence Denny!!) if Duvel can have a rich head with just Pilsner malt and sugar.

I've been following the common advice around here and keeping crystal additions to under 10%; and failing at producing rich, creamy, foamy heads on my (bottled) beers.

So, I've been looking around for suggestions for how to boost head formation, let alone retention. All I see is to add Carapils (not what I'm looking for), skip the protein rest (doing that, done that) or add a foaming adjunct. Well, none of that is helping.

Surely you guys are getting some foam on top of your SMaSHes, right? What am I needing to do? I've mashed at 148 (wit and BGSA), 153, 155, 156. I'd rather not go much higher than that for my bitters and pale ales, but maybe that's the key (I fear too much sweetness). I know that protein is the key, and one can add a number of adjunct grains to boost protein, but how is it "supposed" to be done?

__________________
GinSlinger is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-18-2013, 11:01 PM   #2
Pappers_
Moderator
HBT_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Pappers_'s Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,947
Liked 988 Times on 695 Posts
Likes Given: 2054

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GinSlinger View Post
how is it "supposed" to be done?
Add carapils.



Just toying with you. I don't think adding carapils or wheat in small quantities is cheating at all. I add a little wheat malt to almost (almost) every batch.

Are you having troubles with head formation or retention? What beers and what's the recipe?
Pappers_ is offline
Johnnyhitch1 Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-18-2013, 11:03 PM   #3
Revvy
Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Revvy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: "Detroitish" Michigan
Posts: 40,804
Liked 2768 Times on 1657 Posts
Likes Given: 3485

Default

Why is it "cheating?" You think it will piss off the brewing gods or something? Who cares.....there's many paths to things in brewing, and in life, and they're all right. Use it or don't use it....

Hell maybe it's cheating to someone if you're not growing and malting your own grains. *shrug*

__________________

Like my snazzy new avatar? Get Sons of Zymurgy swag, here, and brew with the best.

Revvy's one of the cool reverends. He has a Harley and a t-shirt that says on the back "If you can read this, the bitch was Raptured. - Madman

I gotta tell ya, just between us girls, that Revvy is HOT. Very tall, gorgeous grey hair and a terrific smile. He's very good looking in person, with a charismatic personality... he drives like a ****ing maniac! - YooperBrew

Revvy is offline
6
People Like This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-18-2013, 11:06 PM   #4
454k30
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Pax River, MD
Posts: 210
Liked 13 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 34

Default

Yeah really, what's cheating? If using those grains or whatever get the result you want then who cares. Well, I'm sure someone does but not most people.

__________________
454k30 is offline
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-18-2013, 11:14 PM   #5
GinSlinger
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ypsilanti, MI
Posts: 151
Liked 8 Times on 8 Posts
Likes Given: 15

Default

I've brewed, from this forum, Biermuncher's House Pale Ale, Centennial Blonde, and Nierra Sevada; Yooper's House Pale Ale; and Denny's Wry Smile. I've only gotten head formation (let alone retention) from Denny's. I use on-line calculators for priming, and (barring my Wit mistake detailed in the bottling section) have gotten decent carbonation, but just bubbles to the surface (and rather larger ones than in the rye). I've also done a number of SMaShes using MO, Golden Promise, and regular 2-row--those have been entirely foamless.

I get that most people are fine with adding adjuncts, and I am not opposed to them for any reason. I'm more interested in what steps could produce a rich, creamy head in, say, a SMaSH. I'm definitely not calling anyone out for using Carapils/foam/wheat or whathaveyou.

I've got a BGSA fermenting right now--just pilsner malt and sugar. If I were to do that all over again, and say I ran out of Carapils, how would I assist head formation?

(I know it's not a glassware issue, as I can pour a head forming beer in the glass in any order and still not get head formation from my beers not using wheat/Carapils.)

__________________
GinSlinger is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-18-2013, 11:21 PM   #6
atreid
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 327
Liked 45 Times on 37 Posts
Likes Given: 17

Default

Let's indulge him a little, at least for the sake of science?

It's true that Carapils were not always around. I think it's a pretty valid question as to how someone improves head retention the old fashion way without resorting to any type of "high tech" adjunct...!

Myself, I'm wondering if the fact that back in the days grains were not as "highly modified" could have resulted in a beer that was less clean with symptoms like higher head retention...?

In consequence, now that we use highly modified grain, we now add wheat or Carapils to compensate.

Might that be a good hypothesis?

__________________
atreid is offline
Johnnyhitch1 Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-18-2013, 11:22 PM   #7
zenriquez
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 11
Default

The only thing I know to do is to start your mash at 130-135F and hold that temp for 30 mins before raising to 150-158F. I don't know how you have been using mash temps to your advantage but that's the best place to begin looking for the issue. Good luck!

__________________
zenriquez is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-18-2013, 11:28 PM   #8
GinSlinger
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ypsilanti, MI
Posts: 151
Liked 8 Times on 8 Posts
Likes Given: 15

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenriquez View Post
The only thing I know to do is to start your mash at 130-135F and hold that temp for 30 mins before raising to 150-158F. I don't know how you have been using mash temps to your advantage but that's the best place to begin looking for the issue. Good luck!
No, I haven't been doing this.

That's a little higher than a traditional protein step. Interesting.

thanks to you and atreid for taking this for what it is, perhaps a poorly titled attempt to understand what's going on further than "just add carapils."
__________________
GinSlinger is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-18-2013, 11:34 PM   #9
zenriquez
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 11
Default

I'm not a fan of adjuncts so I try to avoid them all together. Starting at a temp of 130-135F should do the trick. You can pick up little things like this by reading some books such as designing great beers. If you use my tip let me know how it works for you it's never done me wrong. Good luck!

__________________
zenriquez is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-18-2013, 11:42 PM   #10
zenriquez
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 11
Default

Oh by the way atreid has a good theory. Under modified grains do have a better chance at having better head formation and retention but there are other issues that under modified grains present. Nothing a good step mash won't solve though.

__________________
zenriquez is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is this cheating? veritas524 Hops Growing 7 03-19-2012 04:11 AM
Cheating a Doppelbock Gtrman13 Fermentation & Yeast 4 02-20-2012 10:09 PM
Decoction cheating firebird400 Recipes/Ingredients 1 06-03-2011 12:58 AM
Cheating a wild ale mrmitch Lambic & Wild Brewing 2 02-22-2011 09:56 PM
Am I cheating? Dave258 General Beer Discussion 35 03-31-2010 04:41 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS