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brewvac · 01-22-2013, 10:28 PM

Just curious if anyone has ever tried waiting to add hops at a later point in the boil? Almost every recipe I've seen has a 60 min charge, but if you wanted to focus more on the flavor and aroma, can you skip the early additions to avoid some of the bitterness?

***Yooper*** · 01-22-2013, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewvac

Just curious if anyone has ever tried waiting to add hops at a later point in the boil? Almost every recipe I've seen has a 60 min charge, but if you wanted to focus more on the flavor and aroma, can you skip the early additions to avoid some of the bitterness?

Yes! It's called "hop bursting" and it's fairly common.

A good recipe is Jamil Zainasheff's "Evil Twin" as an example.

Here's my version (10 gallons!):
20 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 5 79.2 %
2 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 6 7.9 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 7 5.9 %
12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 8 3.0 %
12.0 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 9 3.0 %
2.0 oz Chocolate (Crisp) (630.0 SRM) Grain 10 0.5 %
2.0 oz Chocolate Malt (pale) (225.0 SRM) Grain 11 0.5 %

2.00 oz Centennial [11.90 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 12 24.9 IBUs
2.00 oz Amarillo [9.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 13 14.8 IBUs
2.00 oz Amarillo [9.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 14 11.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Centennial [11.90 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 15 4.1 IBUs
2.00 oz Amarillo [9.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 16 0.0 IBUs

brewvac · 01-22-2013, 10:41 PM

Thanks so much for the info and the recipe. I've heard so much about Evil Twin. I might try to give this a shot because I don't see myself getting out to Cali anytime soon.

I was thinking about this because I heard the interview a week or so ago with Stan Hieronymus on The Sunday Session where he mentioned that we can't perceive bitterness beyond 60 IBU's. it's making me rethink my IPA recipes.

***Yooper*** · 01-22-2013, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewvac

Thanks so much for the info and the recipe. I've heard so much about Evil Twin. I might try to give this a shot because I don't see myself getting out to Cali anytime soon.

I was thinking about this because I heard the interview a week or so ago with Stan Hieronymus on The Sunday Session where he mentioned that we can't perceive bitterness beyond 60 IBU's. it's making me rethink my IPA recipes.

I didn't hear that interview, but I've heard by other experts that it's more like 100 IBUs where the human perception can't pick up any more. Plus, due to the inability to hops oils to isomerize once saturation, the most IBUs that are possible in a beer is about 100 +/-.

One of the hoppier beers I drink and love is Pliny the Elder. It's got about a million hops in it, with a theoretical calculation on my Beersmith of 250+. But when it was tested in a lab, it was more like 80 IBUs.

brewvac · 01-22-2013, 10:52 PM

Still NEED to try some Pliny. That's the trouble of living on the East Coast.

The interview was pretty informative and I'll probably be picking up his book "For the Love of Hops" some time soon. I certainly could have gotten the info wrong, but he was pointing out how there has been a ton of new research regarding hops in the past 5 years that may change the way we use them. Regardless, there are plenty of <60 IBU beers that I love.

**mcbaumannerb** · 01-22-2013, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewvac

Still NEED to try some Pliny. That's the trouble of living on the East Coast.

Next time you're going to be in Philly, call Origio Beverage and see if they've sold a keg recently. They are the only distributor of Pliny on the east coast and I've found them very helpful in finding a bar that just got one. The kegs go very quickly though so you have to call the bar and verify. Good luck.

Piratwolf · 01-22-2013, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewvac

Still NEED to try some Pliny. That's the trouble of living on the East Coast.

The interview was pretty informative and I'll probably be picking up his book "For the Love of Hops" some time soon. I certainly could have gotten the info wrong, but he was pointing out how there has been a ton of new research regarding hops in the past 5 years that may change the way we use them. Regardless, there are plenty of <60 IBU beers that I love.

Brewvac, I heard the same thing. His wording was a bit different--I believe he was talking about amounts of AA but had indicated that the units he used were approx 1:1 with IBUs. There was a bit of discussion about higher IBU beers adding more "hop character" and so we perceive it as more bitter. But apparently some German researchers separated the bitterness receptors and exposed them to AAs and ~60 was the max.

I have to admit that it's made me start to re-think my hop usage as well. Like you, Yooper, I really like a firm but not devastating bittering--but I alsowant my APA-IIPAs saturated with hop flavor and aroma. Thus my penchant for FWH/15/FO additions

**mcbaumannerb** · 01-22-2013, 11:14 PM

I don't have a problem with high IBU beers- as long as they are balanced with a good malt profile and have a great hop aroma. Too many "I can top that" beers are just about the IBUs and that makes them a challenge to drink.

brewvac · 01-23-2013, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcbaumannerb

Next time you're going to be in Philly, call Origio Beverage and see if they've sold a keg recently. They are the only distributor of Pliny on the east coast and I've found them very helpful in finding a bar that just got one. The kegs go very quickly though so you have to call the bar and verify. Good luck.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll definitely take your advice next time I'm in Philly.

brewvac · 01-23-2013, 12:12 AM

Piratwolf, thanks for summarizing the info from the podcast. I agree with the posters here that the enjoyable part of IPAs and IIPAs is the hop flavor and aroma. I've tried a few that were crazy on the IBUs without enough flavor or aroma to make it enjoyable.