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Old 08-21-2012, 04:15 PM   #31
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My guess is their ovens set from 150 up. Some do. Also I bet they're using kettles for mash tuns. Most coolers wouldn't fit very well in an oven.

My recommendation is to take the mash temp of the recipe and up it by 2 degrees. That's what I'm going to be doing. If it's a lower mash temp, maybe ramp it up 3-4 degrees. You want to avoid sitting in the high 140's without having denatured beta amylase. Otherwise you'll end up with super dry beer like my 1.001 Pale Ale.

I'd say the lowest I'd mash overnight, without much crystal or dextrine malt, is 155. That will still likely result in a dry-ish beer.

We'll see where my 156 mash (oktoberFAST) comes out. I'm guessing it will be slightly more dry than I wanted, but with 10% crystal and 40% Munich I'm hoping there's still some malt character.
I'm using a 10 gallon cooler for my tun, and am thinking about trying this on my next brew. My question has to do with mashout. Are you doing any sparging after the overnight mash? In my head, I'd imagine you'd lauter in the morning, and then heat the sparge water to 170, hold for 10-ish minutes, and then drain to the kettle for the boil like normal. Is there any reason you wouldnt be able to sparge as normal? I dont imagine there would be. Are you also doing a 60 minute boil, or do you boil for longer?
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:31 PM   #32
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I'm using a 10 gallon cooler for my tun, and am thinking about trying this on my next brew. My question has to do with mashout. Are you doing any sparging after the overnight mash? In my head, I'd imagine you'd lauter in the morning, and then heat the sparge water to 170, hold for 10-ish minutes, and then drain to the kettle for the boil like normal. Is there any reason you wouldnt be able to sparge as normal? I dont imagine there would be. Are you also doing a 60 minute boil, or do you boil for longer?
There's really no point in mashing out in the AM. If you're set on doing that, do it before bed, then leave the tun overnight. The conversion is really as "done" as it's gonna be by the AM, so mashing out won't "stop" anything.

Mashing out the night before it the only way to have attenuation similar to a "normal" mash. Otherwise, as I've experienced, not enough beta amylase is denatured so it continues to work thru temps into the 140's, resulting in a very fermentable wort.

The way I plan to avoid this is to up the mash temps accordingly. Beta begins to be denatured from 154-162. It doesn't happen immediately, which is why you can mash at 154 and still get good fermentability/attenuation.

I think 155 is a good bet for a relatively dry beer (but not super dry). That allows beta to work for a while but most of it is denatured before temps drop down into it's sweet spot.

For a larger bodied beer, I'd just increase by a few degrees. I'm sure there's a formula that could be derived from this if you know your average temp loss over time and the sugar profile you're looking for.

To answer your question though, I wake up, flip-on the sparge water, make coffee, stir mash (no mashout), then start running off. Then I sparge as usual.

It's literally like I just mashed for an hour and continue like normal, but someone froze time on me and it was actually 8 hours.
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Open log Fermenting and gas-can secondary?? I am planning my next brew right now!!
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Old 08-21-2012, 06:11 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by RainyDay View Post
I'm using a 10 gallon cooler for my tun, and am thinking about trying this on my next brew. My question has to do with mashout. Are you doing any sparging after the overnight mash? In my head, I'd imagine you'd lauter in the morning, and then heat the sparge water to 170, hold for 10-ish minutes, and then drain to the kettle for the boil like normal. Is there any reason you wouldnt be able to sparge as normal? I dont imagine there would be. Are you also doing a 60 minute boil, or do you boil for longer?
Don't forget one of the reasons we want to raise the temp to 170 is to get the sugar into solution.

So from all my reading about BATCH SPARGING it would lead me to believe that you should get it up to 170 and leave it there long enought for the sugar to release from the grain just like you would on the second sparge...

There are all sorts of descriptions on how to do this out there.

Happy Brewing!
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Old 08-21-2012, 06:25 PM   #34
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There's really no point in mashing out in the AM. If you're set on doing that, do it before bed, then leave the tun overnight. The conversion is really as "done" as it's gonna be by the AM, so mashing out won't "stop" anything.

Mashing out the night before it the only way to have attenuation similar to a "normal" mash. Otherwise, as I've experienced, not enough beta amylase is denatured so it continues to work thru temps into the 140's, resulting in a very fermentable wort.

The way I plan to avoid this is to up the mash temps accordingly. Beta begins to be denatured from 154-162. It doesn't happen immediately, which is why you can mash at 154 and still get good fermentability/attenuation.

I think 155 is a good bet for a relatively dry beer (but not super dry). That allows beta to work for a while but most of it is denatured before temps drop down into it's sweet spot.

For a larger bodied beer, I'd just increase by a few degrees. I'm sure there's a formula that could be derived from this if you know your average temp loss over time and the sugar profile you're looking for.

To answer your question though, I wake up, flip-on the sparge water, make coffee, stir mash (no mashout), then start running off. Then I sparge as usual.

It's literally like I just mashed for an hour and continue like normal, but someone froze time on me and it was actually 8 hours.

I agree 155 should be a save temp but it depends on your mash tun and how long it will retain heat...

I am seeing a lot about Beta Amylase going back to work when the temperature falls into the 140(s)

According to Palmer: "Alpha works best at 154-162°F, while [B]beta is denatured (the molecule falls apart) at that temperature, working best between 131-150°F."

AND: according to other sources the highest a Beta Amylase works is 152.6 and;;; I assume denatures above that.

SO: if we Mashed In at 154-156 and stayed there for an hour it would seem to me that we would get full conversion and denature "beta" so there would be nothing left for it to convert and dry it out. (The temp described in the quote)

I know that these temps are from a labratory and when actually brewing it might not work that way but I did not think that beta would further breakdown the sugars created by alpha;;; so you should still get a good mouth feel...

Then again this gent has done it and I am just "pontificating".... but I am inspired and will try it my self...
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Old 08-21-2012, 06:29 PM   #35
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That may very well be. If my oktoberFAST comes out with decent body I will be apt to believe we can denature BA at/above 154 and end up with an average bodied beer.

My 153 was incredibly dry despite holding darn near that temp for an hour and then slowly dropping. The 154/155 seems like the sweet spot for medium-to-slightly-dry beers with this method.

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Originally Posted by davekippen View Post
Open log Fermenting and gas-can secondary?? I am planning my next brew right now!!
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