Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Winners Re-Re-Re-Drawn - 24 hours to Claim!

Get your HBT Growlers, Shirts and Membership before the Rush!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > came up WAY short on volume
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-16-2009, 12:29 AM   #1
android
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ames, Iowa
Posts: 3,117
Liked 40 Times on 32 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default came up WAY short on volume

i decided to do a "use up your leftover ingredients" beer today and was able to utilize my new dip tube in my HLT, allowing me to drain all but a few drops out of it. i thought i'd be able to dial in my total water amount from beersmith and use that to end up with 5 gal... i ended up with somewhere between 3-4 gallons of wort. no big deal, but i'm just looking for input on how much others start with when boiling a 5 gal batch. the OG was supposed to come in around 1.049, but ended up at 1.062, i could have added more water, but thought screw it, we'll just see how it turns out.

i know beersmith can't calculate for everyone based on equipment differences, but i started with 7.6 gallons in the HLT, as BS suggested. after mashing, i had about 6-6.5 gallons preboil. i just find it hard to believe i boiled off 2+ gallons. it was a very vigorous boil and stayed foamy most of the time, never really seemed to get a hot break, but i know i did.

i guess my question is, for those of you who do 5 gallon all-grain batches, what is your normal pre-boil volume? i know we will get a wide range of numbers here, but i'd just like to know what others are doing so I can get some ideas.

thanks.

__________________
primary: APA

ebay temp controller | thermostat temp controller
android is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-16-2009, 12:43 AM   #2
AZ_IPA
PKU
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
AZ_IPA's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Cold Part of AZ
Posts: 43,842
Liked 6328 Times on 5484 Posts
Likes Given: 850

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by android View Post

i guess my question is, for those of you who do 5 gallon all-grain batches, what is your normal pre-boil volume? i know we will get a wide range of numbers here, but i'd just like to know what others are doing so I can get some ideas.

thanks.
I usually shoot for 6.5 preboil and boil it down to ~5.5 into the primary to hopefully wind up with 5 gallons of finished product
__________________
AZ_IPA is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-16-2009, 04:59 AM   #3
Sigafoos
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 852
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

I'm still working on this. I had been getting 4-4.5 gal so I tried to adjust and got 6+ (hefe with a starter... damn right I used a blowoff tube). If you had 6-6.5 gal preboil and you ended up with 4.5, then it looks like you boiled off a lot. How wide is your pot? Factors like the surface area and wind, etc, can affect boiloff rates.

__________________
Community Beer Works: a Buffalo, NY nanobrewery that is now open!

CBW website | Twitter | Facebook | HBT thread

Niagara Association of Homebrewers ex-President
Live in or around Buffalo? Join NAH for fun and excitement!

[1:47pm] chefmike: and dont listen to sigafoos!
[1:47pm] Sigafoos: that's generally good advice
Sigafoos is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-16-2009, 05:07 AM   #4
Big10Seaner
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Schaumburg
Posts: 683
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

I start with 7 gallons if I want to end up with 5 after a 60 minute boil. I use an outdoor propane burner/keggle setup.

__________________

End of the Line Brewing
Primary: Caramel Cider
Secondary: Bourbon Vanilla Porter
On tap: Some Sort of IPA, Cherry Cider
Bottled: Belgian Sour (1st place winner Binny's Chicago Comp)

Big10Seaner is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-16-2009, 01:20 PM   #5
android
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ames, Iowa
Posts: 3,117
Liked 40 Times on 32 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big10Seaner View Post
I use an outdoor propane burner/keggle setup.
me too... and i just got a new burner/regulator, so i have one for the HLT and one for the BK. the regulator is only 5 PSI, which i didn't know when ordering it. i figured since it is less than the 10 PSI one i normally use, i should rock it... well, lesson learned, the 5 PSI has NO problem getting my full boil going and i had a boilover, which may have contributed to my volume loss, but not that much. i'll definitely try around 7 gallons next time.

is there a way in beersmith to adjust your preboil volume without changing your target volume?
__________________
primary: APA

ebay temp controller | thermostat temp controller
android is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-16-2009, 01:48 PM   #6
smakudwn
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
smakudwn's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: St.Charles, MO
Posts: 1,043
Liked 51 Times on 39 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

I had the same problem my first 2 batches. My problems were
1. Didn't expect the grains to soak up so much water (.2)
2. Didn't expect my boil off to be almost 25% (keggle and propane burner)

so i have to start with just over 7 gallons to get around 5 gallons into the primary

__________________
smakudwn is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-16-2009, 03:13 PM   #7
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 22,244
Liked 1056 Times on 704 Posts
Likes Given: 28

Default

There are a couple variables I pay attention to. First, 60min boil or 90? I lose about 1.5 gallons per hour. Don't think of boiloff as a percentage. It's a fixed amount over time for your equipment.

Second, big hop bill or small? Leaf or pellet. If I'm brewing an IPA with all leaf, I add 1/2 gallon to the batch size.

__________________
BrewHardware.com has a new website. Please check it out and let me know what you think!
New 100% Stainless Steel Heating Elements are IN!
Chugger Pumps, Pump Kits, Camlocks, Sightglasses, Clear USA made Silicone Tubing, RIMS, Electric Install Parts, etc. Did you know we are also now a full service homebrew shop selling malt, hops, yeast (Wyeast), etc?
Bobby_M is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-16-2009, 03:13 PM   #8
Big10Seaner
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Schaumburg
Posts: 683
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Where it says "equipment" go to the right and click on details. You can check or uncheck whether to have the preboil volume calculated automatically (mine is unchecked). It tries to calculate your boil volume for you based on your equipment.

__________________

End of the Line Brewing
Primary: Caramel Cider
Secondary: Bourbon Vanilla Porter
On tap: Some Sort of IPA, Cherry Cider
Bottled: Belgian Sour (1st place winner Binny's Chicago Comp)

Big10Seaner is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-16-2009, 03:26 PM   #9
Pangea
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lafayette, LA
Posts: 325
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts

Default

For an OG 1.049 beer, I'm typically around 6.5 gallons pre-boil volume for a 5 gallon batch, 60min boil.

Did you measure your pre-boil gravity?

I agree with everyone that says you should be around 1.5 gallons per hour for most types of homebrewing AG boiling setups. It's going to be different for everyone, but should be in the ballpark.

Another thought is that I usually start with more than 7.6gallons in the HLT for a batch this size. I'm usually at least 9 gallons. Since I've been making 5.5 gallons batches, I've been using nearly 10 gallons in the HLT. It sounds like you may not have used enought water.

If I had to guess - It sounds like your pre-boil gravity was too high, and you really had less than 6 gallons pre-boil. This would imply that you didn't sparge enough.

I'm no AG veteran, but I do have many batches under my belt and I'm a strong advocate of measuring my pre-boil gravity to know when I've got enought wort. I never miss OGs by more than a point because I know my boil-off rate and can calculate the pre-boil gravity needed. I sparge until I hit the pre-boil gravity of the wort in my kettle. Works every time.

If you want to do the calculation manually:

(Grav Units 1) x (Volume 1) = (Grav Units 2) x (Volume 2)

Using your situation finishing at 1.062 OG (grav unit 2) with only 4 gallons post boil (or Volume 2).
I'm also going to assume your pre-boil volume was 5.5 gallons instead of 6 like you stated.

(Grav Units 1) x (5.5 gallons) = (62) x (4 gallons)

That would yield a pre-boil gravity of 45 gravity units or 1.045. To hit OG 1.049 on a 5 gallon beer - you'd need 6.5 gallons at 1.038.

__________________

Pangea is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-16-2009, 08:53 PM   #10
android
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ames, Iowa
Posts: 3,117
Liked 40 Times on 32 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangea View Post
Did you measure your pre-boil gravity? No, I will try this next batch.

Another thought is that I usually start with more than 7.6gallons in the HLT for a batch this size. I'm usually at least 9 gallons. Since I've been making 5.5 gallons batches, I've been using nearly 10 gallons in the HLT. It sounds like you may not have used enought water. Definitely a possibility, I need to mark my new sight gauge to see how much I'm using to sparge with.

If I had to guess - It sounds like your pre-boil gravity was too high, and you really had less than 6 gallons pre-boil. This would imply that you didn't sparge enough. I think you're right, I must have had less than 6 gal. Need a sight gauge on the keggle as well. I've got the coupling for it, just need a suitable piece of heat-resistant polycarb.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smakudwn View Post
so i have to start with just over 7 gallons to get around 5 gallons into the primary. I'll definitely shoot higher next time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_M View Post
There are a couple variables I pay attention to. First, 60min boil or 90? I lose about 1.5 gallons per hour. Don't think of boiloff as a percentage. It's a fixed amount over time for your equipment.

Second, big hop bill or small? Leaf or pellet. If I'm brewing an IPA with all leaf, I add 1/2 gallon to the batch size. Really small hop bill; pellets. 1 oz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big10Seaner View Post
Where it says "equipment" go to the right and click on details. You can check or uncheck whether to have the preboil volume calculated automatically (mine is unchecked). It tries to calculate your boil volume for you based on your equipment. Thanks for the direction.
Thanks for the replies.
__________________
primary: APA

ebay temp controller | thermostat temp controller
android is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OG short by about .06 Pickngrin All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 15 10-14-2009 01:37 PM
Help! Include LME volume in boil volume? bitteral Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 7 05-31-2009 07:30 PM
I am short on my final volume of wort bulldogxray All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 8 11-04-2008 04:16 AM
40 oz short bluebrewer Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 15 01-28-2008 07:24 PM
I came up short jeffm1000 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 10 11-12-2006 04:19 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS