BYO Magazine clone recipes; not enough extract?

WhataMack · 07-13-2008, 02:38 PM

(I've searched the forums and can't find any threads about this subject)

I've been going through some of the recipes in the BYO Magazine's "150 Classic Clone Recipes" special edition, looking at the "extract plus grains" versions. I've noticed that the amounts of extract for the recipes I've made or want to make seem to be way too low to achieve the target OG's, according to the calculation resources I always use when preparing ingredient amounts (which have always been very accurate for determining extract required for target OG's).

Some examples of these recipes are below. They're all partial mash:

* Paulaner Hefe-Weizen clone -
1.5 lbs. DME
3.75 lbs. LME, late addition
2.1 lbs. wheat malt
0.9 lbs. pilsner malt
Target OG is 1.053, but the above will yield only about 1.038. I made this recipe per above amounts before confirming this, and measured OG of 1.040. Next day I added 1.5 lbs. more DME and had measured gravity of 1.053.

* Bell's Brewery Two Hearted IPA clone -
4.5 lbs. DME
1.0 lbs. 2-row malt
2.0 lbs. Vienna malt
0.5 lbs. crystal
0.33 lbs. Carapils malt
Target OG is 1.058, but the above should yield only about 1.036. I made this recipe but converted the DME to about 8 lbs. of LME with same amount of grains and had measured OG of 1.060.

* Sierra Nevada Pale Ale clone -
1.8 lbs. DME
4.0 lbs. LME, late addition
1 lb. 6 oz. 2-row pale malt
10 oz. crystal malt
Target OG is 1.052 (Sierra Nevada site says OG is 13 Plato, which is close to BYO recipe's OG), but the above should yield only about 1.040. Have not made this recipe yet.

* Troges Brewing Co. HopBack Amber clone -
7.75 lbs. LME
2.5 lbs. Munich malt
0.25 lbs. crystal malt
1.0 oz. chocolate malt
Target OG is 1.063, but the above should yield only about 1.052. Have not made this recipe yet.

BYO credits the brewers throughout the magazine who directly helped in creating the different recipes. None of the above recipes have these credits.

So, I'm curious if anyone else has seen these inaccuracies in this BYO special clone edition. I've shown these recipes to my local homebrew shop (they're very experienced) and they're just as puzzled as I am. It sure seems odd that these could all be just misprints.

**D2T** · 07-13-2008, 02:39 PM

Have you taken into account your own efficiency in the calculations? BYO may be using a higher one.

**Yuri_Rage** · 07-13-2008, 02:40 PM

Efficiency is fixed with extract brews.

**D2T** · 07-13-2008, 02:44 PM

Whoops

That's right. I noticed the same kinds of discrepancies with the all grain recipes until I realized my efficiency at the time was much lower.

WhataMack · 07-13-2008, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D2T

Have you taken into account your own efficiency in the calculations? BYO may be using a higher one.

Not sure what you mean by my "efficiencies" (is that an all-grain measurement? I've never made all-grain), but my partial mash measured OG's have always been extremely close to the target OG's for other recipes that I've made from other (non-BYO) sources. Again, I've reviewed these with my experienced LHBS as well as my brother, who's been partial mash brewing for years, and both say these amounts seem way too low for the target OG's.

**D2T** · 07-13-2008, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhataMack

Not sure what you mean by my "efficiencies" (is that an all-grain measurement? I've never made all-grain)

Yeah, just ignore me. I'm still waking up

I skipped straight from extract to all-grain so sometimes I forget partial mash exists.

**Bokonon** · 07-13-2008, 03:09 PM

Are you including gravity points from the partial mash? I stuck the numbers of the SNPA into beersmith. I'm going to assume exactly 5 gal batches since it wasn't listed and I don't have that mag. I've also never done a partial mash so I'm not sure what efficiency you get extracting from the partial mash (maybe 50%?)

So with just the malt extracts it says the OG should be 1.043. If you get 50% efficiency mashing the grains then the OG would be 1.050, 60% would be 1.052

I guess you would need to figure out what your partial mash efficiency has been in the past to be able to apply it to future recipes

Brett0424 · 07-13-2008, 03:20 PM

Yeah the problem is that they for some reason, on some of those recipes, calculated OG's as if you were mashing and sparging the specialty grains to get a 60-70% efficiency. Well, if you just steep the grains you'll only get a couple gravity points (maybe up to 25% efficiency) out of them and you won't hit the gravity. It is a flaw in the recipes because they don't tell you to mash. Just take this into account and fix them as needed.

WhataMack · 07-13-2008, 03:45 PM

Yes, I'm cracking (not grinding), steeping and sparging the specialty grains per the recipes. btw, they don't say to mash them but to steep and sparge, so it sure sounds like they want you to do a partial mash.

From what I've read, partial mashing doesn't really contribute many fermentables, and isn't meant to do so. It's used mostly for body, head retention, color and some specific flavoring.

**david_42** · 07-13-2008, 03:53 PM

All of those recipes look like mini-mashes to me. You would never steep 2-row, or Munich for that matter. In fact, unless you steeped at 170F or higher to de-nature the enzymes, the presence of 2-row and Munich will make it a mash.

(WM - you have steeping & partial mashing reversed.)

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