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Old 11-29-2012, 01:29 PM   #31
chazzman
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Odin, I agree with your thinking on this, I will admit I don't know why there is an exception for beer because wine and cider benefit from
aeration sometimes. What I read originally said something about the beer's yeast should get their O2 by eating the sugar for the most part.
I was just trying to help, not trying to upset anyone, sorry. One last thing and I hope this does not stir thins up, but the OP mentioned
about aeration before pitching, if the wort happened to be too warm or possibly hot, off flavors would result. I better make my exit here
as i did not mean to cause a stir.

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Old 11-29-2012, 01:30 PM   #32
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I always shake just prior and just after the yeast pitch. It will not oxidize a thing, as the yeast will consume all of the oxygen in the wort as they reproduce during the lag phase. This is a good technique to do. Now after it gets going, that's a different story.

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Old 11-29-2012, 02:25 PM   #33
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Just after should be absolutely fine, but S04 can ""get going" pretty fast so yes probably to just after, but later in the day may not be
so good. I hope others chime in!

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Old 11-29-2012, 03:54 PM   #34
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Sounds like there might be a lot of problems. More details on water volumes, water source, water adjustments, gravity readings, etc. would help eliminate some of the potential problems. It may just be the case that OP does not like the flavors common to english ale strains and S04 in particular. If you do not like the ester flavors with those strains, either do not use them or ferment much cooler. I fermented a porter with S04 a few weeks ago at 62F because I didn't want too much yeast character in that particular beer. It came out fairly clean but I am not opposed to fermenting some of my English-style beers much warmer.

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Old 11-30-2012, 02:38 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReverseApacheMaster View Post
Sounds like there might be a lot of problems. More details on water volumes, water source, water adjustments, gravity readings, etc. would help eliminate some of the potential problems. It may just be the case that OP does not like the flavors common to english ale strains and S04 in particular. If you do not like the ester flavors with those strains, either do not use them or ferment much cooler. I fermented a porter with S04 a few weeks ago at 62F because I didn't want too much yeast character in that particular beer. It came out fairly clean but I am not opposed to fermenting some of my English-style beers much warmer.
Water info:

Mash: 1.3qt/lb @ 156F
Batch sparge with 180F water to bring the grainbed up to 170F during sparge.
Extract Efficiency was around 75%

Water source: Granite bedrock water well @ 380' depth. Water is average in mineral content and neutral in pH according to the water test performed when I bought my house. I've always used this water in my beers and it's great.

I'm really starting to think that nothing is wrong with the beer...I just don't like the taste of the esters produced with S-04 yeast fermented in the 66-68F range. I also realized that my beer had only been in the bottles for 18 days when I did my first taste test. I'm going to try them again at 4 weeks and see if there is any improvement and report back.
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:27 PM   #36
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Jayhem, did you taste this beer along the way before bottling? I have a winter warmer (1.075, with similar ingredients) sitting on SO4 for just about 2 weeks. I rehydrated 1 single pack, expecting a gravity around 1.060, which still probably stresses the yeast a bit. On top of that, I pitched at 60F and fermentation probably got no warmer than 64F. The bulk of fermentation ended within a week. At 7-10 days the beer has that flavor you describe. I moved it to slightly warmer climes and just checked last night that this flavor is gone.

The upshoot of what I'm saying is drink samples of your beer along the process and let that dictate your schedule or course of action. However, it is quite possible that the character has changed or is adjusting to its new package. English yeasts have a tendency to do that, so it may come back around to something more drinkable...good luck!

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Old 11-30-2012, 03:35 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14thstreet View Post
Jayhem, did you taste this beer along the way before bottling? I have a winter warmer (1.075, with similar ingredients) sitting on SO4 for just about 2 weeks. I rehydrated 1 single pack, expecting a gravity around 1.060, which still probably stresses the yeast a bit. On top of that, I pitched at 60F and fermentation probably got no warmer than 64F. The bulk of fermentation ended within a week. At 7-10 days the beer has that flavor you describe. I moved it to slightly warmer climes and just checked last night that this flavor is gone.

The upshoot of what I'm saying is drink samples of your beer along the process and let that dictate your schedule or course of action. However, it is quite possible that the character has changed or is adjusting to its new package. English yeasts have a tendency to do that, so it may come back around to something more drinkable...good luck!
Thanks for the response. I tasted the beer before priming and bottling and it tasted good. It didn't seem to develop this harsh nutty/bitter taste till it was carbonated. I'm really hoping that a 2-month bottle condition at 70F will at least make it drinkable.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:12 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhem View Post
How can this be a common problem and people still use S04?

At a recent competition (357 entries) i won several categories with beers made with S04:
-3rd best of show (American Pale Ale)
-1st Place Special Bitter
-2nd Place Extra Special Bitter
-1st Place American Pale Ale

i think the yeast i fine, maybe operator error?

for those interested here is how i handle the yeast.

1. rehydrate per the instructions. i do this 30 minutes before pitching. the yeast will foam up, i pitch when it is at peak foam. the yeast takes off quickly this way. if you wait an hour plus after the foam subsides there is more lag time. Not sure it makes a difference.

2. pitch around 58-60 degrees

3. maintain 60-62 degrees for a few days. I tape my johnson controler probe to the carboy, insulated with folded up paper towel.

4. when fermentation starts slowing down, ramp up to 68-70.

5. hold at 68-70 until beer is done.

6. total primary time of 14 days.

7. cold crash, fine with gelatin. carbonate, age, collect ribbons.

i also inject pure O2 and use Wyeast beer nutrient.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:08 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k47k View Post
At a recent competition (357 entries) i won several categories with beers made with S04:
-3rd best of show (American Pale Ale)
-1st Place Special Bitter
-2nd Place Extra Special Bitter
-1st Place American Pale Ale

i think the yeast i fine, maybe operator error?

for those interested here is how i handle the yeast.

1. rehydrate per the instructions. i do this 30 minutes before pitching. the yeast will foam up, i pitch when it is at peak foam. the yeast takes off quickly this way. if you wait an hour plus after the foam subsides there is more lag time. Not sure it makes a difference.

2. pitch around 58-60 degrees

3. maintain 60-62 degrees for a few days. I tape my johnson controler probe to the carboy, insulated with folded up paper towel.

4. when fermentation starts slowing down, ramp up to 68-70.

5. hold at 68-70 until beer is done.

6. total primary time of 14 days.

7. cold crash, fine with gelatin. carbonate, age, collect ribbons.

i also inject pure O2 and use Wyeast beer nutrient.
I pitched around 70F and then put my carboy in my fermentation control fridge at 60F ambient so the beer came down to 65F before high krausen stage. I kept the beer temp around 65-67F for the first few days and then left it at 67 to finish up.



I actually tasted another sample of the brown ale last night...25 days in bottles now and it's starting to clean up a bit! Definitely drinkable now. I think if I cold condition them for a couple weeks it might be good!
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:17 PM   #40
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i'm a little slower to jump on the s-04 bashwagon. how many ounces EKG did you use? did you use a wort chiller? I have gotten tastes from that hop in young beer similar to what you're describing. It fades pretty quick, though.

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