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Old 11-28-2012, 06:47 PM   #21
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Nut flavor in brown = all good. Take a look at the "Not a big fan of the S-04" thread. Its got lots of yeast related experiences like this in there. I made a brown and then a scotch ale from S-04. The brown was fermented 65-68 and has some sour twang to it. I'm not a big fan, but its only been carbonated for 3-4 weeks now, so I haven't given up hope.

The Scotch ale was fermented very cool, more in the 62 - 63 range and I detect none of those off flavors in the hydrometer samples. My fingers are crossed on that one as it will sit for another month or two in secondary before I bottle it.

I saved some S-04 yeast from the brown but just dumped it the other day. Not my yeast I guess. I will move onto other English yeast strains.

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Old 11-28-2012, 06:58 PM   #22
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I am pretty sure all 11 gram packets of dry yeast are good for a 5 gallon batch up to 1.060 so a starter, even if a good idea, was unnecessary for your beer at 1.044.

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Old 11-28-2012, 07:08 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Jayhem View Post
This may have something to do with it. I did not know that dry yeast could not be used in a starter to grow cell counts before pitching. I had good yeast activity for the first 3 days and then it just died off. I was still at 1.019 after 14 days of fermentation...had to wait 21 days to finish to 1.014.

Here are the SG's I measured @ 65F.

OG: 1.044

FG: 1.014
1.014 seems a bit high for an o.g. of 1.044 - that makes for 67% attenuation. That means a sweeter beer which in turn can make for some variables depending on what fermented and what did not. It's still beer and it may improve with time. A 21 day fermentation for a beer with an og of 1.044 is longer than usual and points to stressed out or otherwise non performing yeast.

I may have come off a bit too harsh on the issue of making starters for dry yeast. You still end up with beer and the instructions say you can do that, but several very seasoned brewers at my club (including a microbiologist) are very keen on simply re hydrating rather than sprinkling or throwing it into a starter. In theory, you could pitch re-hydrated yeast in to a starter and build it up from there but for my $3.50, I'd just assume buy another packet of yeast. You can use a stir play to do the re-hydrating if you like.
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:17 PM   #24
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Has the beer been in the fridge long enough for the SO4 to drop completely crystal clear? I have found extra bitterness from SO4 while the beer is still a bit hazy.
That could have something to do with it...the 2 bottles I tried had only been in refrigeration for 2 days. Maybe a week or 2 in the fridge would help but I still think I just need to age these another month as they have only been bottled for 3 weeks.

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Originally Posted by Patirck View Post
1.014 seems a bit high for an o.g. of 1.044 - that makes for 67% attenuation. That means a sweeter beer which in turn can make for some variables depending on what fermented and what did not. It's still beer and it may improve with time. A 21 day fermentation for a beer with an og of 1.044 is longer than usual and points to stressed out or otherwise non performing yeast.
I wanted a malty/sweet brown ale which is why I mashed at 157F and used a lot of Crystal malt. Keep in mind that this was an 11 gallon batch. I used a starter and 1 packet of S-04 and pitched the yeast slurry after it had produced about 1 full cup of thick white yeast in the bottom of the starter. I decanted the starter before pitching it.
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:26 PM   #25
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Ok, I've been doing my research on S-04 and a lot of brewers are noticing significant esters if fermented above 67F. My fermentation strips on the fermenters never got over 67F but I wonder how accurate fermentation strips are on better bottles v. a thermo-well? Maybe my internal beer temp did hit 70?

At any rate it can't hurt to age these a few months and report back....

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Old 11-28-2012, 07:46 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhem View Post
Ok, I've been doing my research on S-04 and a lot of brewers are noticing significant esters if fermented above 67F. My fermentation strips on the fermenters never got over 67F but I wonder how accurate fermentation strips are on better bottles v. a thermo-well? Maybe my internal beer temp did hit 70?

At any rate it can't hurt to age these a few months and report back....
The fermometer instructions have some info on the effect of ambient temperature, but it was only checked on a glass carboy. Here is the link:
http://tkachenterprises.com/Products.html
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:58 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by ncbrewer View Post
The fermometer instructions have some info on the effect of ambient temperature, but it was only checked on a glass carboy. Here is the link:
http://tkachenterprises.com/Products.html
Thanks, yea my fermometer strips seem to be pretty accurate to internal beer temp.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:19 PM   #28
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One thing you mentioned... You said you shook your fermenters after you pitched as well as before. I thought before was perfectly fine
but not after the yeast is inside the fermenter in the case of beer and ale. The oxidized beer in this case may taste like wet cardboard...
that is what I thought I read somewhere here.

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Old 11-28-2012, 08:33 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chazzman View Post
One thing you mentioned... You said you shook your fermenters after you pitched as well as before. I thought before was perfectly fine
but not after the yeast is inside the fermenter in the case of beer and ale. The oxidized beer in this case may taste like wet cardboard...
that is what I thought I read somewhere here.
I have never heard that aeration is bad after the yeast is pitched. Why would it make a difference adding more air or pitching on wort that is already full of oxygen? The yeast need oxygen to grow so I don't see how aeration after pitching could cause problems but someone please correct me if this assumption is wrong!
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:16 AM   #30
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If you aerate your wort it should be the same difference before and after pitching, maybe if you shook em up after primary fermentation you might get oxidation, but at the beginning the yeast consume the oxygen and reproduce thereby removing O2 from the wort? right?

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