Ss Brewing Technologies Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > Briess Under-modified pilsner = poor efficiency?
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-23-2007, 10:37 PM   #1
cweston
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
cweston's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Manhattan, KS
Posts: 2,019
Liked 11 Times on 9 Posts

Default Briess Under-modified pilsner = poor efficiency?

My last two batches (a saison and a tripel) have had terrible efficiency (around 60% or less). The only thing they have in common that's different from my usual procedure is that both used Briess under-modified pilsner as the base malt.

I get my grains pre-crushed from Austin Homebrew--the third batch whose ingrediants I purchased in that same order, I got my usual 73-75%.

Anyone else experience this with that malt?

__________________

Primary: none
Secondary:
Bottle conditioning: Robust Porter
Drinking: Saison Dupont clone, tripel
Coming soon: Columbus APA, Rich Red ale
cweston is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-23-2007, 11:33 PM   #2
Dude
Will work for beer
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Dude's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Knob Noster, Missouri
Posts: 8,843
Liked 55 Times on 45 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

No experience with it, but it makes sense if it is under modified malt.

__________________
On Tap: Lake Walk Pale Ale -- Eternity (Raspberry Stout) -- Nutrocker -- Donnybrook Dark
Primary: Lake Walk Pale Ale
Secondary: Summit IPA
Up Next: Smoked Porter -- Pub Ale -- Watermelon Wheat
Planning:
Gone But Not Forgotten:

www.IronOrrBrewery.com
Dude is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2007, 01:12 AM   #3
Baron von BeeGee
Beer Bully
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Baron von BeeGee's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Barony of Fuquay-Varina, NC
Posts: 5,419
Liked 16 Times on 15 Posts

Default

The Breiss undermodified is still fairly well modified, but not as much as other malts. What was your brewing procedure? Multistep mash? Did you check pH?

__________________
Baron von BeeGee is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2007, 03:24 AM   #4
cweston
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
cweston's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Manhattan, KS
Posts: 2,019
Liked 11 Times on 9 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron von BeeGee
The Breiss undermodified is still fairly well modified, but not as much as other malts. What was your brewing procedure? Multistep mash? Did you check pH?
20 min protein rest at 125, 60 minute saccrification at about 151 for both.

No water modification: I didn't check pH, but my local water should be just about perfect for very light beers without modification (never had pH problems before). I suppose that could be it.
__________________

Primary: none
Secondary:
Bottle conditioning: Robust Porter
Drinking: Saison Dupont clone, tripel
Coming soon: Columbus APA, Rich Red ale
cweston is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2007, 05:06 AM   #5
Brewsmith
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Brewsmith's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 6,259
Liked 31 Times on 29 Posts

Default

Sounds like you need to decoct it. Where's Kai?

__________________
Fermenting:#160 Apollo/Calypso Pale Ale
Kegged:#153 Old Helicon Barleywine 2013, #157 Irish Red, #158 Mosaic IPA, #159 Bravo/Delta ESB
Up Next:Brown Porter, American Stout, Imperial Stout
My Recipes
Tuba Sonata

Smith & Co. Custom Tap Handles
Brewsmith is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2007, 04:19 PM   #6
AdIn
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
AdIn's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sammamish, WA
Posts: 304
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Sounds like you need to up temperature for your protein rest to 131, then do saccharification at 152-154. Or do a separate beta-amylase rest at 145. How much liquid do you use in your mash? Decoction would also be a good idea.

__________________

Non-alcoholic beer is a first step to a rubber woman


Last edited by AdIn; 03-24-2007 at 04:21 PM.
AdIn is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2007, 06:17 PM   #7
Kaiser
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Kaiser's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pepperell, MA
Posts: 3,904
Liked 114 Times on 71 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewsmith
Sounds like you need to decoct it. Where's Kai?
I'll doubt that this will give him the 10% that he is missing. Yes, pH might be an issue. BTW, how did you sparge? Another thing that comes to mind is crush. Maybe the crush wasn't as good for the pilsner.

Kai
__________________
BrauKaiser.com - brewing science blog - Twitter - water and mash chemistry calculator
Kaiser is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2007, 07:37 PM   #8
cweston
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
cweston's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Manhattan, KS
Posts: 2,019
Liked 11 Times on 9 Posts

Default

It may have been a pH issue. I don't test pH, but my calculated mash pH (from my water report) is in the neighborhood of 5.7 in a mash with no crystal or dark malts. Since almost all of my beers have crystal and/or dark malts, this generally puts me right where I want to be, around 5.2 or so. (So I don't think much about pH.)

But these two (saison and tripel) had no crystal malts, so I probably should have brought my pH down a bit. Does .5 or less pH discrepency make that big an efficiency difference?

Adin: my protein rest probably was closer to 131 in both cases--it came out a little above the 125 I was shooting for.

I don't think it was the crush--presumably the three batches of grain they shipped out together were all crushed at the same time on the same setting, and the other one was my usual efficiency.

__________________

Primary: none
Secondary:
Bottle conditioning: Robust Porter
Drinking: Saison Dupont clone, tripel
Coming soon: Columbus APA, Rich Red ale
cweston is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2007, 11:02 PM   #9
Kaiser
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Kaiser's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pepperell, MA
Posts: 3,904
Liked 114 Times on 71 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

ph 5.7 might be a little high. Try adjusting it next time and see if you get the expected change in efficiency.

__________________
BrauKaiser.com - brewing science blog - Twitter - water and mash chemistry calculator
Kaiser is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Briess Pilsner Malt Lodovico Recipes/Ingredients 6 03-16-2012 07:04 AM
Poor Efficiency - Poor Crush? Scut_Monkey All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 14 05-22-2009 02:43 AM
Pilsner 2 Row VS Briess 2 Row iXanadu All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 1 03-25-2009 03:45 AM
Good Efficiency with Un-Modified Cooler? killsurfcity All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 14 03-18-2009 07:47 PM
Subbing - Briess 2 row for Rahr's Pilsner Gammon N Beer Recipes/Ingredients 1 01-16-2009 03:41 PM