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**Yuri_Rage** · 09-22-2009, 12:42 AM

Pol, it wasn't an attack, just constructive criticism. I understand recipe similarities, so I'm not bent up over that one. I also now realize that you've done your own work on the no chill article. I do think you should credit HBT and Orfy/BM in the SMaSH and kegging articles. My $.02.

The Pol · 09-22-2009, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuri_Rage

Pol, it wasn't an attack, just constructive criticism. I understand recipe similarities, so I'm not bent up over that one. I also now realize that you've done your own work on the no chill article. I do think you should credit HBT and Orfy/BM in the SMaSH and kegging articles. My $.02.

I dont have the power to go back and edit the articles.

I also never knew that HBT and Orfy coined SMaSH.

**Orfy** · 09-23-2009, 05:31 AM

Just for reference and clarity.

SMaSH. A little history.

There are many beers and recipes world wide with one variety of hops and malt.
I was looking to learn more about my brews and the ingredients so I started brewing a lot of Single Malt and Single Hop brews and a group of brewers started to do the same and discuss. The term Single Malt and Single Hop was turned into the Acronym SMaSH by Cheesefood.

So the Acronym was born of the threads on HBT. I also believe the idea of using wide scale SMaSH brewing to learn about individual malts and hops can also be credited to HBT.
It would be silly to suggest the idea of a single malt and hop combination brewing come from HBT.
If the term was used before HBT discussions I'd be very surprised and I'm not sure if any other brewing communities have started to use it since.

IN short the acronym SMaSH and it usage for multiple batches to learn about the ingredients was born on HBT.
Using single varieties of hops and malts in one brew was not. Although I don't know where else the method has been widely tried and discussed.

That being said I have not read the article but I think some mention that the term SMaSH was coined, discussed and widely employed by member's of HBT would add to the article and let readers know where the acronym and usage of the method of learning started.

Edit:

This may give you an insight. There are many SMaSH treads and brews after this on.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/single-malt-single-hop-45890/

The Pol · 09-23-2009, 11:14 AM

Couple questions here....

When is it OK not to cite the root of a term or process?

How is one who is not involved in the creation of the term or process to know the root of what is, at the time, tribal knowlege?

Why arent you concerned about giving credit to the inventor of the false bottom? The first Firts Wort Hopper? The creators "no chill" wort production?

Where is that line? What makes one term or topic different from another, when they are all tribal knowlege?

These are all valid, if the issue over the root of SMaSH is valid. If I am to continue providing content to BF, this is of great interest to me.

Now, if I am cutting and pasting excerpts from any source, then that is NOT my creation, and demands credit given.

I am just trying to have an open dialogue here, not picking a fight... but some of the allegations made in this thread have no basis whatsoever, making me wonder what the motivation was in the first place.

The Pol · 09-23-2009, 11:49 AM

By the way, congrats on the success of your site Larry and the Water Calculator...

***Yooper*** · 09-23-2009, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pol

If an allegation is to be made, dont lead with this... this seems like a huge stretch and makes it look like you are just picking a fight, and in this case, with the wrong guy (Larry).
.

I've read through the whole thread, and I don't see any allegation or anybody picking a fight. As Yuri said, recipe similarities are very common so no one is criticizing that. I think it's more the name, along with the ingredients. Edwort lived in Germany for years, and he's married to a German woman, so he's one of the people who use words like "haus" in his brew names. He's certainly not the only one who can use it, and it must just be a coincidence that it's got the same ingredients in different amounts. No one is picking a fight with you, or with Larry.

When we write articles, we definitely use our own experiences so citing the source isn't always easy. But, taking information directly from our site, and incorporating into articles, does take some of us aback. No one is complaining, they are just mentioning it to you. Comparing the knowledge gained from this site into having to site sources for recognized brewing methods like FWH and using a false bottom is not a good comparison.

What if I wrote for a magazine, and used all of the info from your no-chill brewing experiments. It wouldn't be cut and paste; I'd write it myself. But I'd make no mention of you at all, just saying that "brewers are doing this". I bet you would say, "Hey! Thanks for putting the info out there, but I'd appreciate a little bit of acknowledgement" That's all anybody is saying here.

-TH- · 09-23-2009, 12:05 PM

I'm with you on this one Pol. If every term or phrase related to brewing was due credit to the coiner every time its mentioned, I think we'd all be in trouble. To my knowledge SMaSH is not copywrited or trademarked. 'nuf said.

And yes, nice calculator at brewer's friend (although I'm partial to the one in my sig

)

The Pol · 09-23-2009, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YooperBrew

I've read through the whole thread, and I don't see any allegation or anybody picking a fight. As Yuri said, recipe similarities are very common so no one is criticizing that. I think it's more the name, along with the ingredients. Edwort lived in Germany for years, and he's married to a German woman, so he's one of the people who use words like "haus" in his brew names. He's certainly not the only one who can use it, and it must just be a coincidence that it's got the same ingredients in different amounts. No one is picking a fight with you, or with Larry.

When we write articles, we definitely use our own experiences so citing the source isn't always easy. But, taking information directly from our site, and incorporating into articles, does take some of us aback. No one is complaining, they are just mentioning it to you. Comparing the knowledge gained from this site into having to site sources for recognized brewing methods like FWH and using a false bottom is not a good comparison.

What if I wrote for a magazine, and used all of the info from your no-chill brewing experiments. It wouldn't be cut and paste; I'd write it myself. But I'd make no mention of you at all, just saying that "brewers are doing this". I bet you would say, "Hey! Thanks for putting the info out there, but I'd appreciate a little bit of acknowledgement" That's all anybody is saying here.

Obviously you have not compared the 2 recipes. (2) of the (4) malts in mine are the same, one of those being 2-Row. The OG 1.050 to 1.040? The IBUs 39 compared to 18? The BJCP styles are totally different, one is a Pale Ale, one is a Blonde... and mine is CCB Haus Ale, not CCB Haus Pale Ale is Yuri incorrectly stated. They only share Vienna and Cascade (2-row is a given, cmon)... wonder how many recipes here on HBT use Vienna and Cascades?

In my travels I see plenty of beer or brewery related names what have the term Haus in them, now we are getting silly.

Still not seeing the striking similarity

The Pol · 09-23-2009, 12:16 PM

As for taking my No Chill experiment information and creating content from it without giving me credit, I wouldnt care. This isnt my job, it is a simple hobby and I intentionally place all of this information on a free website to share it, for free.

There is no intellectual property here on HBT, and personally someone could cut and paste what I post here and use it for other purposes, as it harms me in no way. Further distributing it would do what I had intended in the first place, to help others, whether I get credit or not doesnt affect me in any way.

If I wanted to stake a claim to something, I would certainly write it in a book and copyright it and charge you all for my ideas

The Pol · 09-23-2009, 12:43 PM

FWIW... I grew up in MI too, spent plenty of time in Frankenmuth, where every business has the word Haus in it.