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distrex · 04-26-2007, 01:47 AM

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4650
I stumbled on this a couple days ago and it seems like it might be worth it, especially to just get my foot into all grain. I was just wondering if anyone has done that and if so how did it go?

joshpooh · 04-26-2007, 02:10 AM

Looks like a workable method especially for someone not wanting to spend alot of money or create some extravagant setup to go AG. My AG setup is similar in a way. I use a cooler for the mashtun and put all the grains in a large grain bag to separate spent grains from the wort. I still sparge though and do step mashes just like brewers with more advanced setups do though so it isn't exactly the same, but I did see similarities in their ideas and my ideas of how to simplify the AG process and do it with simpler equiptment. There are many ways to get to the same place. In the case of AG brewing 99% of them are great routes to take.

mew · 04-26-2007, 03:40 AM

I think the cooler with ss braid looks a bit harder to build, but much much easier to operate. The cooler with ss braid would probably be easier and more fun for the beginning home brewer.

Waldo · 04-26-2007, 08:58 PM

I checked that out as well and would recommend going with batch sparging, its not hard and you don't have to make a huge bag out of a curtain.

Also notice he is mashing with the total volume of water needed for the boil, that works out to around 3 quarts of water per pound of grain, thats gonna really mess with the mash ph and would have to hurt efficiency not to mention the tannin extraction. I know he claims otherwise but I just don't see how you could avoid it.

Also I don't like the idea of having to lift that big bag of hot wet grain out of the boil kettle, I can see all kinds of ways to get burned and what a mess.

HarvInSTL · 04-26-2007, 09:27 PM

From the website:

Quote:

There are 2 main reasons why people think its a bad idea.

1 - Extreme Liquour to Grist ratio will effect the wort fermentability

2 - Lousy efficiency due to not sparging

Here's why they aren't really a problem.

1 - I can and have gone into lengthy discussions about L:G ratios. Mainly, people seem to be concerned about Beta Amalayse enzymes becoming denatured too quickly at such a high L:G ratio; and leaving you with an overly dextrinous wort. Then again, others say that a thin mash leads to increased fermentability, and therefore BIAB worts will be overly dry. In a way, they are both right. Both these things are a concern. BUT, in practise, they seem to balance themselves out and worts well within the normal range are produced. Even at the L:G ratios involved with BIAB, still by far the biggest influence on wort fermentability is temperature. To be on the safe side I mash 0.5 to 1 degree C lower in temp than I normally would, and haven't had problems yet.

2- Everyone thought that the efficiency would suck. Even those of us who were working on developing the technique (I take VERY little credit, its all other peoples work) Strangely however, the actual efficiencies achieved seemed to be quite comparable to low end batch sparging results. People were getting mid 60s to 70% efficiency. When we refined a little and realised that with the bag acting as a filter, you can mill your grain exceptionally finely, those results leaped up to the mid 70% range. For low to normal OG worts I calculate my recipes on a brewhouse efficiency figure of 75% and for High OG worts at 70%. It WILL drop quite dramatically once your grain bill starts to get realy big. But the same holds true for batch sparging. If you make sure you mill or get your grain milled to the finest possible crush and you make sure to heat the mash up to a good mashout temp and stir it well. Your efficiency should be pretty comparable to batch sparging in a normal AG set-up

The actual limitations of BIAB are:

Batch Size - Its all gotta go in that bag, which you have to lift out, which has a finite strength before it breaks.... and you also have to fit everything in your kettle at once. So, much bigger than 5gallons and BIAB isn't the appropriate method

Step Mashing - While you can add heat to your mash tun, because of the volume its less like steps and more like ramps. the couple of guys who have tried it haven't been too thrilled. But I'm sure that a way could be worked out. It just hasn't yet.

Maybe no "Extreme" beers - As stated above, BIAB has the potential to be unkind to Beta Amalayse enzymes. If you are planning mashes at the extremes of the acceptable mashing temp ranges, or if you are using really significant amounts of adjunct that need to be converted. Then maybe BIAB wont do the trick. This hasn't been tested, but certainly it would be playing to the method's weaknesses

Waldo · 04-26-2007, 09:43 PM

But he doesn't address ph and tannin extraction.

Beerrific · 04-26-2007, 09:43 PM

Maybe I missed it on the guys post, but this is pretty common for partial mashes.

I am planning on doing this for my partial mash, but in my bottling bucket so there will be a spigot, and that makes it easy to batch sparge.

It seems to me, I don't know if this was addressed, that you would need a lot more grains to achieve the same OG.

Danek · 11-09-2007, 01:45 PM

I'm going to try the Aussie approach to brewing in a bag for my next batch (my curtains are already sown!). It might work, or it might be horrific, but I've always thought that brewing is all about experimenting. If anyone's tried this technique in the interim then I'd be grateful for any tips. Otherwise, I'll let you know how I get on

malkore · 11-09-2007, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mew

I think the cooler with ss braid looks a bit harder to build, but much much easier to operate. The cooler with ss braid would probably be easier and more fun for the beginning home brewer.

honestly, I find the cooler MLT very easy to build. The hardest part is getting the SS braid off the hose that's inside of it...but if you push it, from the right direction, it slides right off.

but it is a $50-$70 investment for a new cooler and the parts list. you've gotta be willing to make that little leap.

srm775 · 11-09-2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waldo

But he doesn't address ph and tannin extraction.

I don't see how this method would affect ph and tannin extraction any more than a normal MLT. I definitely see how it would affect efficiency. And, I can see how it can affect tannin extraction with a fine crush. But I don't see how ph would be affect any more than any other method. And, tannin extraction is based on three factors occuring at once: high heat, ph, and crush.

Since I don't see how this would lower the ph and the heat wouldn't be any different than any other direct fire decoctions.

Perhaps I'm missing something?