Bleach for sanitation??

zeg said:

I'm extremely skeptical of this claim. (Though I didn't listen to the podcast, sorry, audio formats annoy me.) The CDC recommends the use of diluted bleach for disinfection of surfaces (http://www.cdc.gov/hicpac/disinfection_sterilization/6_0disinfection.html). It's recommended for cleanup of mold and mildew by the Colorado State Extension (e.g., http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/columncc/cc0802.html). The evidence I can find quite uniformly indicates that bleach is an effective, broad-spectrum disinfectant (and on par with or broader spectrum than acid-based disinfectants).

I guess it's possible that in this specific venue there's a problem with it, and maybe your podcast covers this. But I don't think you can justify the claim that you're doing "nothing."

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Sorry if the audio format annoys you, but it's clearly explained in the podcast.

And as far as the buffering qualities of water go, that's quite a discrepancy ! I listened to the podcast (again!) and there are no mentions of using RO or DI water. Maybe it was a mistake on his part. Maybe he told himself "that's good enough for homebrew applications". Maybe he "improvised" that part of the interview and didn't think it through. I don't know. He did not say which pH you should be targetting after acidification either.

What I do know is that all of my beers (except one) have been shelf stable without off-flavours after bottling and using the acidified bleach method. Anecdotal evidence, so it doesn't prove a thing (and I drink my beer fast), but as Charlie explains in the podcast cleaning is very, very important for the homebrewer as to not leave organic material that can harbour bacteria, mold and wild yeast in important quantities. He even goes to say that sanitizing is more of an insurance policy on your cleaning. That's debatable, but it's true that if you pitch healthy yeast at an appropriate rate, the small amount of bugs that might or might not be present on your clean equipment have a far lesser chance of taking hold.

Moral of the story: bleach, does it work ? Yes. Can it be used without making your beer taste like band-aids ? Yes. Is it the best performing thing on the market right now ? Not a chance. If I were to brew keeping beers (6 months plus), I'd use the modern stuff too (StarSan, Iodophor). The reason I started with bleach is that none of the lhbs that I knew of when I started with the hobby carried StarSan or Iodohpor. All they did carry was that horrible pink powder that you have to rinse with hot water. I stumbled about the podcast, gave it a go and it worked.

I use bleach, because it's dirt-cheap, very effective, and like being the guy in line with 2 cases of bleach and no intention of using a drop of it on my laundry. I make good beer often enough to know that using bleach as a sanitizer certainly doesn't ruin beer, although I'm not discounting the possibility that using Starsan instead would improve my results. I'm just wondering about the people who wear clothes they're worried about ruining while brewing beer.

I also primarily use bleach, but do use PBW on my kegging gear sometimes. Where PBW really excels is removing krud left over from fermenting in kegs. Bleach of course does not do this, but I have never had a batch of beer with off-flavors due to bleach or bacterial infection -- I've have of course managed to screw a few up in other ways.

I used to use bleach all the time. Never had a problem with it affecting the taste of my beer. I was always a clean freak and rinsed and used it how it was supposed to be used. It is cheap and plentiful. Thank God for Star San!!! Soooooo much easier and it lasts forever. Why do all the extra work? I'll only use bleach if I'm in a pinch. Other than that, it's Star San for me!

Bleach for glass. B-Brite for Kegs. I've had one infection in 6 years of brewing. Pretty sure it was because I didn't clean the poppets on the keg well enough with the B-Brite.

I rinse the glass carboys until the bleach smell is just above undetectable, let dry inverted for 10 mins, and let the wort flow...

Star San is still so ...Johnny come lately. F’r criminy sakes - it’s like driving a Prius.

[Real men use Iodophor] should be a bumper sticker included with the 32oz bottle!

I jest. When I FINALLY ran out of my 32oz bottle of Iodophor, I went to the shop to get some Star San but they were out. So pissed. Nor did they have the little bottle of Iodophor. I was brewing the same day so was forced to get another 32oz bottle - so sometime in 2020 I may try Star San.

However, “Iodophor is a stone killer. Red is dead.” – Charlie Talley. (via a different podcast – as I remember it, from so many years ago. He gets into PH and also talks about using vinegar if your water is whacky - and recommends using distilled with Star San for spray bottle application. All that is from beer soaked memory though.

I ditched PBW ($$$) for unscented OxiClean, per vast recommendation on this board. Funny story, I went online and had a hell of a time finding where to buy the unscented version locally. Ended up driving to a gnarly section of South Central Los Angeles and … it was just … beyond description. Took me half a day and one of the worst lines (read: checkers) in the history of all stores, of all time, in all worlds, in all dimensions of possibility. Anyway, the following week I gasp as I see it on my local supermarket shelf. Gee - never thought to look there.

I use BLC.

For a very long time I used 1oz of bleach to 5gal, to sanitize, but would rinse thoroughly with cold tap water – completely oblivious (for over a decade, and a few mysterious infections later) that I was defeating the purpose of sanitizing to a large extent. Then for the second decade I used easily double the recommended Iodophor – completely oblivious to the fact that that does not kill them twice as dead, nor does letting everything soak for 20min kill them 10 times more dead still.

The above BrewingNetwork podcast finally sorted me out. That was a good day.

lumpher said:

i use iodophor, and it works great.

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The only unfortunate thing about it, is that it stains!

I would prefer to use something clear!

amandabab said:

All of my equipment eventually gets a beach soak at some point in its downtime .
I don't use it as a sanitizer on equipment thats curently being used to brew a batch

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How long do you soak your equipment for and what strength of bleach solution do you recommend using?

Nothing disinfects more as cheaply as chlorine does. The claim that it doesn't do anything flies in the face of its use in thousands of applications worldwide for over 150 years. Whether or not its ideal for brewing systems is another matter. And as for rinsing it afterwards and introducing more pathogens... I think that's pretty stupid reasoning since the tap water you use to rinse has also been treated with chlorine.

With that said, StarSan seems to be the standard, and when used with a spray bottle, a little goes a very, very long way. At my current brewing pace, my bottle of StarSan will last me about 10 years.

msa8967 said:

How long do you soak your equipment for and what strength of bleach solution do you recommend using?

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I use it for equipment that's been in storage and is going to be washed, or bottles that are new to me.

smells like strong beach water is close enough and an afternoon or when I get to it is long enough

Thanks...I am getting ready to store some of the equipment (buckets) for several months and wanted to make sure I put it away clean and free of any microscopic nasties.