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Old 03-02-2012, 01:04 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by MalFet

Are you talking about fermentability from different mash temps? Sure, that's true, but a mash out doesn't (or shouldn't) affect that.
Yeah, but ok. I'm using about 7.5-8 gallons water with my 9-12 pound grain bills so it's pretty liquidy.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:08 PM   #12
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I do agree that the solubility of sugar goes up as the temp does (try dissolving a teaspoon of sugar in cold tap water, then try it in boiling water) but it's not very relevant to the mash out. Its purpose is foremost about deactivating enzymes prior to a 60minute + fly sparge where that longer activity may affect fermentability. In a BIAB, this is irrelevant as well. The last reason a mashout may be beneficial was touched on already. If conversion was only 90% complete, that last bit of ramped up temp will push the enzymes to complete conversion. In fact, you could practically shorten your mash by a good 15 minutes if you plan a mash out ramp up. For example, if a given bill normally takes 60 minutes to convert at 152F, you can do 30 minutes at 152 and spend 15 minutes ramping up to 168 and it will definitely be done.

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Old 03-02-2012, 01:09 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by sivdrinks View Post
Yeah, but ok. I'm using about 7.5-8 gallons water with my 9-12 pound grain bills so it's pretty liquidy.
I'm sorry, I'm not following you. Mash temperature will affect the fermentability of your wort. The amount of water you add will make your mash thicker or thinner. These two things aren't really that related, and a mash-out is different than either. Using a mash-out will neither change the fermentability of your wort nor alter your water to grist ratio. All it does is stop enzyme activity.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:15 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Bobby_M View Post
I do agree that the solubility of sugar goes up as the temp does (try dissolving a teaspoon of sugar in cold tap water, then try it in boiling water) but it's not very relevant to the mash out.
Exactly. Solubility (both rate and degree) is definitely a function of temperature, but that shouldn't be a limiting factor here. A liter of 25ºC water will dissolve two kilos of sucrose. This goes up to four kilos at 85ºC. As brewers, we're dealing with 2-3% of those concentration.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:21 PM   #15
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BeerWiki quote: "Mashing out is the process of raising the mash temperature to 170F. The goal being to halt any enzymatic activity and prevent further conversion of starches to sugars.
Mash-out is often left out of the batch sparging process as a large amount of 170F+ water will be added for the sparging process."



And, IMO, if you do NO SPARGE BIAB and your plan is to start boiling immediately, then that essentially funtions as a mash-out.

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Old 03-02-2012, 01:30 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by ayoungrad View Post
BeerWiki quote: "Mashing out is the process of raising the mash temperature to 170F. The goal being to halt any enzymatic activity and prevent further conversion of starches to sugars.
Mash-out is often left out of the batch sparging process as a large amount of 170F+ water will be added for the sparging process."



And, IMO, if you do NO SPARGE BIAB and your plan is to start boiling immediately, then that essentially funtions as a mash-out.
I'd venture to guess that the BeerWiki you've quoted here was written with traditional AG brewing in mind. BIAB mashout isn't meant to halt enzymatic activity; it's meant to help get every bit of wort possible into the kettle.
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Old 03-02-2012, 02:06 PM   #17
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I agree that the quote is originally for all-grain. But using BIAB does not change the purpose of a mash-out.

If you want to increase BIAB efficiency, you are best off sparging. I BIAB and use varying techniques... +/- mash-out, +/- batch sparge(s). The technique I use depends on my goal. But if you want the greatest increase in efficiency with BIAB, the best way is to add a sparge (or two).

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Old 03-02-2012, 02:12 PM   #18
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I think the merits of a mashout can be debated without regard to the type of AG process you use. It won't really help efficiency more than a step mash, and it is only really advantageous if you are mashing at a higher temp and wanting to fix your wort's unfermentables at a high level for more body. If you put the wort on to boil quickly you can minimize that without the mashout.

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Old 03-02-2012, 02:30 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalFet

I'm sorry, I'm not following you. Mash temperature will affect the fermentability of your wort. The amount of water you add will make your mash thicker or thinner. These two things aren't really that related, and a mash-out is different than either. Using a mash-out will neither change the fermentability of your wort nor alter your water to grist ratio. All it does is stop enzyme activity.
What are the enzymes doing that need stopped? If I pull the bag out and drain/squeeze isn't that enough? I only mentioned water volume because I figured the extra amount with BIAB/no sparge would take care of rinsing the sugars. I'm still new so be gentle!
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:11 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by sivdrinks View Post
What are the enzymes doing that need stopped? If I pull the bag out and drain/squeeze isn't that enough? I only mentioned water volume because I figured the extra amount with BIAB/no sparge would take care of rinsing the sugars. I'm still new so be gentle!
When mashing, you are (predominately) converting starches to sugars. This is mainly accomplished by beta and alpha amylase enzymes. They both form sugars as byproducts. But, it is predominately the activity of beta-amylase that results in fermentable sugar (the greatest proportion of which is maltose). And the proportion of sugar that is fermentable plays a role in FG and residual sweetness of beer.

So, once you deactivate beta amylase (above 160, as with a mash-out), you have effectively locked in the proportion of the sugars.

Keep in mind that the larger portion of the enzymes are located in the wort, not with the grains.
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