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Old 08-14-2013, 09:00 PM   #1
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Default Best temp for protein rest/chill haze?

My beers are turning out great...except for chill haze. I use whirlfloc, wort chiller, leave the break behind...but I still get chill haze. I don't have the ability to cold crash, and I don't want to add anymore clearing agents due to my OWN purity laws. So, I am thinking of adding a protein rest to my next batch to see if it helps with the haze issue.
Anyone done this? Any advice as to what temp? I have read 122-130* but not sure if I want the lower or upper end of the range.

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Old 08-14-2013, 09:28 PM   #2
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Are you beers very hoppy? Hops have lots of polyphenols that will give you haze, and because these are flavor components you don't want to completely eliminate them.

There are a couple things that can be going on too, one is if you are not getting a good hot break after you start the boil you will get a hazy beer. It is very important to start the boil quickly and have it be a good strong boil. If you start with a simmer and then increase the boil you will end up not getting the proteins to clump together efficiently and precipitate out as the hot break. Also If you have a whirlpool step and the protein that is coming out of solution gets too broken up it will not fall out of solution as well.

Be careful if you go the protein rest method, the protolysis reactions go very fast, and can result in a lack of proteins necessary for head retention. So try to keep the rest in the 5-10 min range.

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Old 08-14-2013, 09:50 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bsquared View Post
Are you beers very hoppy? Hops have lots of polyphenols that will give you haze, and because these are flavor components you don't want to completely eliminate them.
Not all of them...no. But all are hazy.
There are a couple things that can be going on too, one is if you are not getting a good hot break after you start the boil you will get a hazy beer. It is very important to start the boil quickly and have it be a good strong boil. If you start with a simmer and then increase the boil you will end up not getting the proteins to clump together efficiently and precipitate out as the hot break. Also If you have a whirlpool step and the protein that is coming out of solution gets too broken up it will not fall out of solution as well.
I have tried boiling the %$*& of the wort...still hazy. Plus, the hop flavor sucks due to the hop material raising in the break foam and depositing on the sides of my kettle. I am now down to getting a hard boil without break material being produced, then reducing the heat so I have a low but steady boil. Flavor is awesome...no change in haze behavior.
Be careful if you go the protein rest method, the protolysis reactions go very fast, and can result in a lack of proteins necessary for head retention. So try to keep the rest in the 5-10 min range.
What temps? Upper 120's?
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:10 PM   #4
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Really you just want to start with a strong boil until you get your hot break, then throttle it back so you are in the evaporation rate range of 8-10% / hr.

So here is what is in the master brewers association of americas book the practical brewer:

Medium size proteins that can contribute to turbidity are broken down in the tem range of 122-140, at a pH of 4.2-5.3.
Given that these temp ranges are a bell shaped curve of activity you will get optimum activity in the middle of the range.

Here is their Haze action list.
increase adjunct rate
Use vigorous boil with aeration
Use kettle additives (whirlfloc)
Use well modified malts with low soluble nitrogen
Use protein rest
Use low mash pH where tannin levels are less soluble


All the rest of the list covers chilling, filtering and additives.


Hope this helps.

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Old 08-14-2013, 10:32 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bsquared View Post
Really you just want to start with a strong boil until you get your hot break, then throttle it back so you are in the evaporation rate range of 8-10% / hr.
Doing this....check.
So here is what is in the master brewers association of americas book the practical brewer:

Medium size proteins that can contribute to turbidity are broken down in the tem range of 122-140, at a pH of 4.2-5.3.
Given that these temp ranges are a bell shaped curve of activity you will get optimum activity in the middle of the range.

Here is their Haze action list.
increase adjunct rate(Nah, not big on adjuct grains)
Use vigorous boil with aerationDoing this...check
Use kettle additives (whirlfloc)Doing this...check
Use well modified malts with low soluble nitrogenUsing Rahr 2 row mostly...So, yes...check
Use protein restGonna try this...thank you
Use low mash pH where tannin levels are less soluble No Ph checker yet, no water report...only adding a little ph 5.2 adjuster. Most I can afford at this point.


All the rest of the list covers chilling, filtering and additives.


Hope this helps.helps a bunch..thank you!
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:39 PM   #6
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The protein rests I've done, I've done at the upper end of the range, about 130F, for a short duration (10 mins or so). I get clear beers, even with pils malt, but only after lagering.

You say you're using 5.2....from what I've read - don't, especially since you have no baseline on what your water is like.
My suggestions - ditch the 5.2 and follow the water primer here using distilled next time. Distilled is cheap, even if you buy it by the gallon at the grocery store.

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Old 08-14-2013, 11:05 PM   #7
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what kind of wort chiller are u using? I'm in agreement with BSquared about the hot break since I was having similar issues to yours. Good hot/cold breaks are key to clear beer.

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Old 08-15-2013, 01:31 AM   #8
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I'm using a homemade immersion chiller...50 ft of copper tubing. I can get from boiling to below 80* in 15 minutes or less.

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Old 08-15-2013, 01:35 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneHands View Post
The protein rests I've done, I've done at the upper end of the range, about 130F, for a short duration (10 mins or so). I get clear beers, even with pils malt, but only after lagering.

You say you're using 5.2....from what I've read - don't, especially since you have no baseline on what your water is like.
My suggestions - ditch the 5.2 and follow the water primer here using distilled next time. Distilled is cheap, even if you buy it by the gallon at the grocery store.
This is good advice. I almost never do a protein rest, and when I do I do them at 131-133. But that is very rare, and I haven't noticed that increasing clarity at all.

I'd skip the 5.2 "stabilizer" and either make one batch with all RO water with a teaspoon of calcium chloride, or invest the $26.50 in a water report. With the techniques you are using, you should have clear beer and I'm thinking that a protein rest will not help but correcting mash pH may.
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Old 08-15-2013, 10:06 AM   #10
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I appreciate the input guys, really. But $26.50 for a water report+$7 for shipping+more $$$ for a decent ph tester+A little more for the additives....just too much for a hobby. Since it is a hobby, I have kids to raise and all of the bills that go with it...I have more important things to spend that money on.
A protein rest doesn't cost a thing...just maybe a few extra minutes. I can afford that.
I will try 129* for 10 minutes on my next batch. If it works, GREAT!. If not, meh...it still tastes good.

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