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Old 09-19-2007, 07:08 PM   #1
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Default Berliner Weiss: mash hopping and no boiling

I've got upcoming plans to make a Berliner Weiss, and I drank an 1809 Berliner Weiss yesterday (mmm...it was tasty) and the label said this:

"The applied mashing regime is a single step decoction mash with 50 % wheat malt.The total amount of hops is added to the mash so that isomerisation takes place in the decocotion part of the mash. The wort is not boiled but only heated up to boiling temperature and then transferred to the open fermenters and pitched with yeast and lactic acid bacteria (isolated from malt) at 18 °C (64°F)."

There was one or two threads on mash hopping, but has anyone ever done this with a Berliner Weiss or have any other thoughts about doing this?

Thanks.

-Jon

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Old 09-19-2007, 07:17 PM   #2
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Jon,

I've never done a berlinerweisse, but I've schemed on it. Here's the recipe I thought about using:

Quote:
Napoleon’s Champagne
(5 gallons/19 L, all-grain)
OG = 1.030 FG = 1.004
IBU = 9 SRM = 3 ABV = ~3.0%

Ingredients
4.0 lbs. (1.8 kg) Durst Pilsner malt
2.0 lbs. (0.91 kg) wheat malt
5 AAU Spalt hops (15 min)
(1.0 oz./28 g of 5% alpha acids)
Wyeast 1007 (German Ale) or
White Labs WLP029 (German Ale/
Kölsch) yeast (1 qt./~1 L starter)
Wyeast 4335 (Lactobacillus) bacteria
(1 qt./~1 L starter, not aerated)
1.2 cups corn sugar (for priming)

Step by Step
Make bacterial starter 2 weeks before brew day. Make yeast starter 2–3 days before brewday. Heat 2 gallons (7.6 L) of strike water to 161 °F (72 °C) and mash at 150 °F (66 °C) for 45 minutes. Collect about 3 gallons (11 L) of wort and add water to make about 5.33 gallons (20 L) of pre-boil wort. Boil for 15 minutes, adding hops at beginning of boil. Pitch both starters to cooled wort. Ferment at 62 °F (17 °C) for one week, then condition for a week or two at 70–80 °F (21–27 °C) in primary fermenter. Rack to secondary and bottle the beer in heavy bottles a few days later.
So they have you boiling for 15 mins. Still a short boil, but a boil nonetheless.
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.planned:
•Scottish 80/- •Sweet Stout •Roggenbier
.primary | bright:
98: Moss Hollow Soured '09 72: Oude Kriek 99: B-Weisse 102: Brett'd BDSA 104: Feat of Strength Helles Bock 105: Merkin Brown
.on tap | kegged:
XX: Moss Hollow Springs Sparkling Water 95: Gott Mit Uns German Pils 91b: Brown Willie's Oaked Abbey Ale 103: Merkin Stout
98: Yorkshire Special 100: Maple Porter 89: Cidre Saison 101: Steffiweizen '09 (#3)
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:21 PM   #3
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Sounds interesting - and like it might work. I've never mash hopped, but the description makes it sound like they added hops to a decoction. That being the case, you'd probably want to decoct a bit thin and boil for at least 30 minutes - perhaps a double decoction. Because your decoction is probably going to be a relatively high gravity, you'll likely want to increase the hops above what you'd normally add to the boil in order to achieve the same effect. Not sure by how much to increase them, though.

Good luck!

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Old 09-19-2007, 07:21 PM   #4
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Now, what's the theory behind not boiling? Not causing proteins from the wheat to drop out (no hot break)? Limiting the hop isomerization to a very low level?

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Old 09-19-2007, 07:23 PM   #5
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Yeah, that's about the recipe I was going to go with, the one from the "10 Hardest Styles to Brew" by BYO.

I am interested in trying the wort hopping, but have heard that it increases hop aroma and flavor, which aren't a profile of a Berliner Weiss.

Possibly because some of the mash is decocted, you lose some of the hop aroma and flavor?

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Old 09-19-2007, 07:28 PM   #6
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Jon, when are you planning on brewing?

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.planned:
•Scottish 80/- •Sweet Stout •Roggenbier
.primary | bright:
98: Moss Hollow Soured '09 72: Oude Kriek 99: B-Weisse 102: Brett'd BDSA 104: Feat of Strength Helles Bock 105: Merkin Brown
.on tap | kegged:
XX: Moss Hollow Springs Sparkling Water 95: Gott Mit Uns German Pils 91b: Brown Willie's Oaked Abbey Ale 103: Merkin Stout
98: Yorkshire Special 100: Maple Porter 89: Cidre Saison 101: Steffiweizen '09 (#3)
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bird
Now, what's the theory behind not boiling? Not causing proteins from the wheat to drop out (no hot break)? Limiting the hop isomerization to a very low level?
That's a great question, I'd like to know why as well. What's most important is ending up with a good Berliner Weiss, not using a set technique. It'd be interesting to find out why they make the 1809 that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan!
Jon, when are you planning on brewing?
Not quite sure yet. I've got the ingredients. If I follow the yeast starter the way BYO says, I'll have to do a 2 week starter, and haven't done that yet.
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Old 09-19-2007, 08:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bird
Now, what's the theory behind not boiling? Not causing proteins from the wheat to drop out (no hot break)? Limiting the hop isomerization to a very low level?
Yep, pretty much. It's a real witches' brew with some crazy protocols. I've never attempted one, and I don't know many who have. One brewer I know has one that's out of this world, though (Best of Show, Bluebonnet, 2007; BoS runner-up, Dixie Cup, 2006). I don't have all his secrets, yet, but I understand he did not boil it. I need to get more of his secrets or, at least, more of his beer.

A Berliner weiss is not at all bitter. It's sour as all get-out, but not at all bitter. As pale as they are, I'm suprised it's decocted at all, but I guess you need some IBUs in there.


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Old 09-20-2007, 04:07 AM   #9
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I found a thread on another forum that discusses making Berliner Weiss...may be helpful to anyone making a BW...

http://forum.northernbrewer.com/view...er=asc&start=0

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Old 09-20-2007, 11:54 AM   #10
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Berliner Weisse is being discussed on the The Jamil Show this Sunday night at around 8pm Pacific. That is too late for me but I plan on listening when it makes it to podcast on the 8th.

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