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bootney · 03-05-2011, 10:57 AM

I'm looking for some input as to what could be the cause for the lack of malt flavor in my beer. Most of my brews end up this way, and the only real flavor I get is from the yeast. I have read that yeast contributes up to 80% of the flavor but with my beer it seems like it contributes much more than that.

Here's the grain build and yeast for the brew I just tried last night.

9.25 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter
0.50 lb CaraMalt
0.25 lb Roasted Barley
1 Pkg British Cask Ale (Wyeast Labs #1026)

Fermentation went from 01/16/2011 through 02/12/2011. Starting gravity was 1060 and final gravity was 1014. I had around 86% brewhouse efficiency, and yielded close to 5.90 gallons of wort. I also like to add 1/4 teaspoon of yeast nutrient 1 day after high krausen. The water build for this was done using the EZ Water Adjustment Spreadsheet from Bobby_m and had a chloride to sulfate ratio of .99. I used 2.0 qt/lb with this mash. On a side note I've done anywhere from .75 to 2.0 qt/lb with the same results of decreased malt influence. When I lauter the initial running I heat that to 170 degrees in the boil kettle while I do my sparging. I do a double batch sparge consisting of 2 gallons each.

The reason I feel that it's lacking malt character is due to my increased efficiency. I have to increase water volume in order to avoid going way over the estimated starting gravity. Even though the gravity is there the flavor of the beer is diluted.

This is just what I think it is. Any suggestions out there?

boo boo · 03-05-2011, 11:17 AM

Less water = more malt flavour.
What was your IBUs and what temp did you mash at?

Not saying it is you, but with myself, I had a hard time perceiving the actual taste of malt, and instead thought it to be sweetness associated with crystal malts and higher mash temps.
As far as I know it has to do with the amount of malt to water ratio as to how much you taste the malt.

NcSpar10 · 03-05-2011, 11:21 AM

I'm interested in hearing some response to this as well, I'm having a problem increasing this flavor in one of my recipes. The one thing I will try next is to mash at a higher temp ( I think it's higher) to get more dextrins in the wort. One other thing- maybe it's the strain of yeast that you are using. I've never used that particular one before, but I've made an English Brown Ale recipe that didn't have a particularly strong yeast profile and I used Wyeast's London Ale.

frod1963 · 03-05-2011, 11:33 AM

Maybe mash temps are to blame? What temp have you been mashing at and is your thermometer dependable? Do you have a consistent grain crush or has something changed giving you the 86% efficiency? I'm not the most knowledgeable but maybe this sparks an idea for someone else.

bootney · 03-05-2011, 11:42 AM

boo boo,

The IBU for this beer was 48, and the mash temp was at 150. I would agree with you in that sweetness is what I recognize in terms of malt flavor. The problem with less water means increased gravity, and then perhaps under pitching the right amount of yeast cells.

Nc,

This yeast contributes a moderate amount to the flavor profile I would say. Both the starter and the finished product had the same yeast influence. I was hoping the roasted barley would come through on this but I can't notice it.

I have a brew club tomorrow and I'll see what they have to say, but to me this brew came out with very little flavor.

boo boo · 03-05-2011, 11:47 AM

Then next time try making your mash at 154f and adding a little more crystal malt to the grist, and taking the IBU's down to about 35 to 40.

wonderbread23 · 03-05-2011, 01:07 PM

I tend to think that shooting for an efficiency between 70-75% leads to a maltier beer. All of my evidence is anecdotal, but when trying to do a malt forward beer, I'll skip my sparge and make up for lost efficiency by increasing my grain bill.

Northcalais40 · 03-05-2011, 01:30 PM

Or you could try following an existing recipe as exactly as you can, to rule out any of your procedures as the cause. My guess, and I'm no expert, is that you have a pretty mellow grain bill, coupled with a low mash temp making a dry beer with a lot of IBUs.

That grain bill is very close to a pilsner hybrid I made last year, but I used half as much Roasted, and Boh. pilsner yeast.

I would recomend throwing in a couple pounds of Munich malt (or substituting it for base malt), Mashing at a higher temp, and going a bit lighter on the IBUs. Also embrace your high OG.

***Yooper*** · 03-05-2011, 01:36 PM

I would suggest skipping any water adjustments except one, for the next batch, using RO water and 1 teaspoon of calcium chloride. See if that helps.

McNulty · 03-05-2011, 02:26 PM

If you're doing a 5 gallon batch, try decocting a gallon or two at about 45 minutes into your mash and bring it to a boil. Add it back to the mash and let it sit for 15 minutes before you do your batch sparges. I find this gives me the big malt profile I love.