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Old 06-28-2010, 12:55 PM   #1
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Default Batch sparging: mash out or remash

Ok so there are so many ways that people discuss batch sparging online that I'm now thoroughly confused. I see two major options:

1. Mash out (170F) at the end and use the sparge to just rinse the grain. Add batch sparge(s), stir, give a few minutes for grain to settle, then draine.

2. Don't mash out. Drain the wort, add sparge water to keep grains around 155-160, let this sit in the grain for 15-20 min or more to continue mashing the grain, then drain.

Has anyone tried both? Are there strong preferences one way or the other?

-ben

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Old 06-28-2010, 01:31 PM   #2
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I don't think you've listed ALL of the various techniques but in any case, the efficiency difference are minor between them.

You can't just say "mash out" without mentioning how you will achieve it. Are you talking about applying direct heat or adding boiling water to get the temp up? There's no real advantage to infusing to a mash out temp with batch sparging unless you were mashing really thick and wanted to get more runoff volume for your first run.

Try this:

Mash for 60 minutes (or 90 minutes if your mash temp is under 150F), recirculate a gallon, run it off fully.
Sparge with 185F water, stir well for 3 minutes, recirculate a gallon, run it off fully.

Done.

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Old 06-28-2010, 01:54 PM   #3
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#2 doesn't work. When you drain the mash water, you remove the enzymes. Stirring for a few minutes will do a better job of dissolving the sugars than letting it sit for 20.

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Old 06-28-2010, 02:28 PM   #4
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I'm sure he's seen people talk about adding sparge water and letting it sit and just assumed this was to continue the mash. Some folks think it raises efficiency by letting more sugar diffuse out of the grain but stirring takes care of that. There will be some enzymes in the trapped liquid and the raised temp will encourage some addition conversion but only if conversion was not already complete (it probably is after a 60 minute mash).

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Old 06-28-2010, 02:29 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_M View Post
. . . . Mash for 60 minutes (or 90 minutes if your mash temp is under 150F), recirculate a gallon, run it off fully.
Sparge with 185F water, stir well for 3 minutes, recirculate a gallon, run it off fully.

Done.
This is how it's done, we have gotten 80%+ eff. with this method, My personal (D)efficiency is usually what screws it up

Keep on brewing my friends
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Old 06-28-2010, 02:32 PM   #6
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I just did my first all grain this weekend, and had a question on the batch sparging as well. After the mash I collected first runnings, then added 180° water and let it sit for probably another 25 minutes before collecting wort again, and repeated for 2 batches. My question is how quickly people draw the wort from the MLT.

In the last edition of BYO Magazine they mention extracting wort at a rate so that it takes 60-90 minutes to drain the MLT. Does anyone spend that much time on it? Do you get lower sugar concentration if you go too fast (and what is "too fast"?).

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Old 06-28-2010, 02:40 PM   #7
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Of course, this is a classic case of confusion between fly sparge and batch sparge methods. You're describing a batch sparge and in that case there is no benefit to letting the sparge water sit on the grain. Stir the heck out of it for a couple minutes and drain it fast. It shouldn't take more than 5 minutes per running. It is fly sparging that generally benefits from a long slow runoff.

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Old 06-28-2010, 04:21 PM   #8
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+ a billion to Bobby M!

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Old 06-30-2010, 03:25 AM   #9
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Quick clarifying question:
On my only AG attempt (achieved 80%) I mashed for 60min at 152 degrees. I added 6 quarts of 180 degree water to raise the bed temp, stirred, vorlaufed nearly a gallon then emptied. Then I split my sparges to two, 170 degree water, stirred, vorlaufed 2 quarts and emptied both times.

Are you saying it wasn't neccessary to add the 6 quarts of water at the end of mash to raise the grain bed temp? And should I have used hotter sparge water? I think I'd feel better splitting up my sparge additions, so I'd stick to that.

I must've did something right, but I'm always looking to have a more refined process. If what I did wasn't neccessary, please let me know.

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Old 06-30-2010, 11:26 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johndeere View Post
Quick clarifying question:
On my only AG attempt (achieved 80%) I mashed for 60min at 152 degrees. I added 6 quarts of 180 degree water to raise the bed temp, stirred, vorlaufed nearly a gallon then emptied. Then I split my sparges to two, 170 degree water, stirred, vorlaufed 2 quarts and emptied both times.

Are you saying it wasn't neccessary to add the 6 quarts of water at the end of mash to raise the grain bed temp? And should I have used hotter sparge water? I think I'd feel better splitting up my sparge additions, so I'd stick to that.

I must've did something right, but I'm always looking to have a more refined process. If what I did wasn't neccessary, please let me know.
Raising the temp of your mash will thin it out and also stop the conversion. I will usually apply direct heat and mash out @ 168+/-, vorlauf,drain,and then depending on how big my beer is, single or double batch sparge.

This will help if you are having trouble with over attenuating.

The process Bobby M described works great, but I start heating my runnings right away. This just stops the conversion.

Splitting your sparge is really up to you. Some people are more concerned with getting the highest efficiency and some worry that to much sparging will lead to tannin extraction. Do what works for you.

Bull
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