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Old 11-19-2010, 12:10 PM   #11
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What do you do in the bathroom - 1 wipe with a huge handfull of toilet paper, or more than 1 wipe with less paper? Let that be your guide.

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Old 11-19-2010, 02:53 PM   #12
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What do you do in the bathroom - 1 wipe with a huge handfull of toilet paper, or more than 1 wipe with less paper? Let that be your guide.
Cute, but not at all relevant. Many homebrewers get carried away in the efficiency race and chase a % instead of quality wort. 1st runnings are always the highest quality wort. For just a few dollars more in grain, all your wort can be 1st runnings and you don't have to worry about tannin extraction, etc. The math is simpler for no-sparge too.
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Old 11-19-2010, 02:58 PM   #13
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^^^^ Yep. Well said. Concise, yet absolutely accurate.

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Old 11-19-2010, 03:44 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Scooby_Brew View Post
OK, correct me if I'm wrong:

No-Sparge: mashing without sparging or "rinsing", so your first runnings are all your pre-boil wort. For example, Brew-In-A-Bag. Or, let's say I use 8 gal of water for the mash all at once, so I get 6 gallons out for pre-boil. No sparge = no rinsing grains.

Batch sparge: remove your first runnings, pour sparge water in, stir the hell out of it, let the sparge water (now wort) out. You can batch sparge once, or divide it to 2 or more "step-sparges".

Fly-Sparge = continuous sparge. You add the new water continuously from the top while removing your wort from the bottom.
Further clarification based on what's been discussed in this thread:

So there are two types of no-sparge?

no-sparge 1: mash with your total pre-boil volume, and at end of mash you mix, vorlouf and drain.

no-sparge 2: mash at whatever ratio you like (1.25 qt/lb or whatever), and at end of mash you add whatever volume of water gets you to your pre-boil, mix, vorlouf and drain.

Is this right?
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Old 11-19-2010, 04:03 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by broadbill View Post
Further clarification based on what's been discussed in this thread:

So there are two types of no-sparge?

no-sparge 1: mash with your total pre-boil volume, and at end of mash you mix, vorlouf and drain.

no-sparge 2: mash at whatever ratio you like (1.25 qt/lb or whatever), and at end of mash you add whatever volume of water gets you to your pre-boil, mix, vorlouf and drain.

Is this right?
Other than BIAB, no-sparge requires recirculating the wort during the entire mash. There is no vorlauf. Well, it is a continuous vorlauf throughout the mash. Without recirculation, you'd get terrible efficiency. And the no-sparge 2 method you describe is really just a batch sparge without draining the first runnings prior to sparging.
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Old 11-19-2010, 04:07 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by jkarp View Post
Cute, but not at all relevant. Many homebrewers get carried away in the efficiency race and chase a % instead of quality wort. 1st runnings are always the highest quality wort. For just a few dollars more in grain, all your wort can be 1st runnings and you don't have to worry about tannin extraction, etc. The math is simpler for no-sparge too.
This has been long debated on HBT and I have yet to see anything concrete on the subject (imagine that - homebrewers debating something that for the most part, doesn't really matter )

Highest quality wort as measured by: ? (I'm just curious, not being an a**).

Tannin extraction appears to be a boogyman in my opinion, if your temps and pH are in acceptable ranges...
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Old 11-19-2010, 04:14 PM   #17
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Highest quality wort as measured by: ? (I'm just curious, not being an a**).
Gravity.
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Old 11-19-2010, 04:25 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Reelale View Post
Other than BIAB, no-sparge requires recirculating the wort during the entire mash. There is no vorlauf. Well, it is a continuous vorlauf throughout the mash. Without recirculation, you'd get terrible efficiency.
This is news to me. I don't understand why mash recirculation is required for no-sparge as they are two separate parts of the brewing process (mash vs. sparge). Also, the main reason to vorluaf is to remove grain particulates/sediments from the runnings before they go into the brew kettle...I would guess you would want to do this regardless of the sparge procedure...even no sparge.

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And the no-sparge 2 method you describe is really just a batch sparge without draining the first runnings prior to sparging.
Not according to earlier posters (and hence my question):

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Originally Posted by maida7 View Post
Here are some differences:

What you call single sparge [referring to the OP] is really like "no sparge".
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Originally Posted by devilishprune View Post
Maida7 is right on on the descriptions. You have detailed a batch sparge and a no sparge.
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Old 11-19-2010, 04:31 PM   #19
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Broadbill, you were correct.

Your first is a no sparge with no mashout, and your second is (probably, depending on temperature of the water you add) no sparge WITH a mashout.

With a no sparge, you don't have to recirculate the whole time. Recirculation amounts to a continuous vorlauf. You can manually vorlauf a few times and get similar results.

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Old 11-19-2010, 04:57 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_IPA View Post
This has been long debated on HBT and I have yet to see anything concrete on the subject (imagine that - homebrewers debating something that for the most part, doesn't really matter )

Highest quality wort as measured by: ? (I'm just curious, not being an a**).

Tannin extraction appears to be a boogyman in my opinion, if your temps and pH are in acceptable ranges...
No, it's a valid question. 1st, I would say based upon the knowledged opinions of those who've actually said it repeatedly - Dr. Bamforth, Palmer, Zainasheff, etc. 2nd, I would say based on my own personal, horrifically opinionated, taste tests. When I batch sparged, I could easily detect husk and tanin flavors even from the 2nd runnings.

Basic Brewing listeners / BYO readers probably know that there's an experiment going on right now to test the actual differences in the finished beer sparge methods make. I'm definitely participating - going to compare my CB20 (no sparge) to fly sparge. Should be fun and informative.
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