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Old 03-17-2008, 01:21 AM   #11
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interesting info, thanks.

it seems that luke warm water would extract at least something and would be better than not sparging at all. unless you are just willing to accept having a batch with less volume than anticipated.

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Old 03-17-2008, 01:40 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_M
Equal sizes are not important at all
...
the highest yield is drain the original mash first, then make up your remaining desired preboil volume with two equally sized batch sparge infusions.
Now Im really confused. Are equal sizes important or not?
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Old 03-17-2008, 01:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruntled
Now Im really confused. Are equal sizes important or not?
It means mash in with your desired water amount (say 1.25 qts/lb)
Then, when you go to sparge instead of doing a single 5 gallon sparge, do 2 double sparge. Making sure that the 2 sparges are the same.
So you would sparge with 2.5 gallons, and then do another sparge with another 2.5 gallons. You are using the same water as a single sparge, just equally dividing it up between 2 sparges.
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Old 03-17-2008, 01:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherpa FE
It means mash in with your desired water amount (say 1.25 qts/lb)
Then, when you go to sparge instead of doing a single 5 gallon sparge, do 2 double sparge. Making sure that the 2 sparges are the same.
So you would sparge with 2.5 gallons, and then do another sparge with another 2.5 gallons. You are using the same water as a single sparge, just equally dividing it up between 2 sparges.
Bobby also said that he wouldn't advise sparging with less than 1qt/lb of grain. So if you are going to sparge with only 2.5 gallons, do so on a grain bed of less than 10# of grain.

I do a mashout with a single batch sparge, and I routinely get 90+% efficiency into the boiler (85% brewhouse). Most of these sparges are at 1.7 to 1.8 qts of water per pound of grain. I think temperature matters more than splitting the sparge into two batches. Sparge too cool and your efficiency will drop like a rock. YMMV.
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Old 03-17-2008, 01:56 AM   #15
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heres a question that goes on to the temperature issue. is it better to wait for water to come up to proper sparge temp and let the mash sit dry if you find out you are short on water or does that lead to potential other issues?

instead of using luke warm water i guess i should have waited to bring a pot up to the right temperature. doesn't seem like it would do much harm to wait looking back.....

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Old 03-17-2008, 02:21 AM   #16
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When you asked about equal runnings, I read "runnings" and not infusions. Equal batch sparge infusions is ideal but slight variation is fine as long as one of them isn't so small as to be not stirrable.

There are so many different variables that it's hard to place hard value on any one of them. We already know that temp is a huge factor. Given.

The factors that seem to confuse and are still being debated are:

1. Infuse prior to first runnings (AKA, the mashout) has proven to be benefitial for some folks. I personally have gotten better numbers by skipping this step and draining first runnings prior to any sparge infusion. The theory on why it helps is making sugar more soluable due to higher equilized temps. Granted, this works but my theory on why it isn't absolutely best practice is that the wort is already highly saturated with sugar and a minor dilution is less than ideal. I get the temp up with hotter sparge water than usual. Fly spargers look at 168F as a brickwall but I know from experience that 185F infusions don't break the barrier.

2. One sparge infusion or two...or more? I "know" that more discrete infusions/drainings is better than less. There's a point of diminishing returns in both physical effort and the mash thickness. Once you get below 1qt per pound, you can't really stir it well enough to get all the sugar in solution. My compromise is always two discrete sparge infusions as close to equal in size as practical. (to be clear, this means I vorlauf and fully drain 3 times).

Good stuff in the wiki: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/ind...rging_Analysis

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Old 03-17-2008, 02:01 PM   #17
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Similar question to Scott-fro's...

I did my first AG Friday night, and inadvertently boiled too little water to get my full "equal" batch sparge volume...I too didn't want to sacrifice efficiency, so I was willing to sacrifice a end batch volume loss...so I went ahead...

My measure OG on a Brown ale, was 070, when Beersmith told me it should be around 050'ish at 72% efficiency...??? I was confused, but went ahead and added my dilution water to make up the remainder of my 5 gal and OG then came back down to around 058...

So what the heck was my efficiency in the end, and did I manage to get this batch right in the end after all ???

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Old 03-17-2008, 02:08 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooter13
Similar question to Scott-fro's...

I did my first AG Friday night, and inadvertently boiled too little water to get my full "equal" batch sparge volume...I too didn't want to sacrifice efficiency, so I was willing to sacrifice a end batch volume loss...so I went ahead...

My measure OG on a Brown ale, was 070, when Beersmith told me it should be around 050'ish at 72% efficiency...??? I was confused, but went ahead and added my dilution water to make up the remainder of my 5 gal and OG then came back down to around 058...

So what the heck was my efficiency in the end, and did I manage to get this batch right in the end after all ???
what was your post boil O.G.? If you hit that on target with the target volume than your 72% is correct.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottfro
what was your post boil O.G.? If you hit that on target with the target volume than your 72% is correct.

The post boil was the higher number...(070) A discussion we had on another forum topic was that it's possible the lower volume led to the higher reading...It only dropped to the 50's after adding some boil water to my fermenter to bring my overall volume back to the 5gal batch...(I ended about bout 3 qrts shy...)

I guess to gauge my efficiency, I would have to go back in, adjust my boil or batch volume with the same grain-bill and see what that efficiency ended up? I'm guessing if my thinking was right, my efficiency would have shot up...no?

I anticipated that with batch-sparging, I would lose a little on efficiency, so I bumped up my 2-row about a pound or so...but then came up about a gallon short on water volume...

All said, in hindsight I wish I WOULDN'T have added the dilution water to make up the batch volume and left it as is...lol
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:11 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooter13
The post boil was the higher number...(070) A discussion we had on another forum topic was that it's possible the lower volume led to the higher reading...It only dropped to the 50's after adding some boil water to my fermenter to bring my overall volume back to the 5gal batch...(I ended about bout 3 qrts shy...)

I guess to gauge my efficiency, I would have to go back in, adjust my boil or batch volume with the same grain-bill and see what that efficiency ended up? I'm guessing if my thinking was right, my efficiency would have shot up...no?

I anticipated that with batch-sparging, I would lose a little on efficiency, so I bumped up my 2-row about a pound or so...but then came up about a gallon short on water volume...

All said, in hindsight I wish I WOULDN'T have added the dilution water to make up the batch volume and left it as is...lol
im confused what you are saying. if your final volume and your O.G. in the fermenter were on target to your recipe then whatever efficiency your recipe was made for seems like it was accurate. if either your final volume or your O.G. were off then the efficiency is not correct.
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