Astringent flavor in darker ales

I've brewed 7 times all-grain now and twice when doing darker ales with crystal and roasted malts there are off flavors that I would call a harsh after taste or perhaps astringent. This is even after letting it condition for 6 months. I noticed that there is a chance of a lower mash ph with darker malts but I am not sure if having a low mash ph would cause this type of issue? Most of what I've read suggests this problem is with a high mash ph. The beer itself doesn't smell bad which to me means it's not infected. I also have very good sanitary practices. The mash/sparge temps never exceeded 170 and lautering went smoothly with a coarse grind.

The pale ales that I've done turned out great. I'm nervous because I have a Christmas ale fermenting that I hope won't be a third bad brew. I started before the second one was finished.

I looked at the water report for the water I'm using but can't make heads or tales from it:
http://www.stow.oh.us/rtefile.php?id=1398

Anyone have similar problems that they resolved or anyone else with suggestions?

Try adding the roasted grains after the mash. I had similar issues with my stouts, not mashing the raosted grains for 60 minutes fixed the issue.

Thanks for the idea, I've not heard of that before. To clarify I would add the grains at the end of the 60 min mash into the tun and then lauter? Does this take away from the flavor/color those grains impart?

duhviz said:

Thanks for the idea, I've not heard of that before. To clarify I would add the grains at the end of the 60 min mash into the tun and then lauter? Does this take away from the flavor/color those grains impart?

Click to expand...

+1
Also look here: http://www.kroc.org/Links/TroubleshootingGuide.htm under astringency

Yes add after 60 minutes then lauter.

It does not affect color, and flavor effects are positive.

YES! I've had this very same problem. I'm @ work now so I don't have time to get into it. I'll see if I can explain what I've experienced later tonight.....

I add all my steeping grain liquor at flameout.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/steeping-dark-grains-sparge-water-356749/

Good stuff

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'll either add the roasted malts right before sparging or cold steep the grains beforehand and add to the boil. I'll post my results.

Sorry it has taken so long for me to get back. I, too, have been suffering with this problem for quite some time. For me, lighter ales would be just fine - but stouts, porters, red ales and brown just had a funky flavor to them. After doing a LOT of reading on this site, I was pointed in the direction of looking at my water chemistry. As it turns out the water where I am is chemically better for ligher ales than darker ales. As a result, I began to add salts (not Sodium Chloride per se), but different chemicals to adjust the chemical make up in my mash water. Not only did it help out MUCH better for my darker ales, but it also improved the lighter ones too.

The following link is for a water calculation spreadsheet that was developed by a member of this site. Once you obtain a copy of the water report from your area (usually found on your city's website), you can enter in the amount of minerals for your area. From there you can enter in how much grain you're using and then adjust the quantity of which brewing salt to add. The idea is to find a good balance based on the style of beer you're trying to make. I usually have to begin with a 50%/50% blend of water to get my numbers to come out. What this means is that I use 50% RO (reverse osmosis) water and 50% "normal" (e.g. spring or drinking water). This gets my mineral balance into a range that is acceptable across all categories.

There are MANY posts about water chemistry in the BREWING SCIENCE forum, but they can easily make your head spin. However, I found them to be quite valuable in helping to troubleshoot this very same issue. This is not the "be all end all" answer, but in my case was a really helpful reference.

The link to the water calculation spreadsheet is: http://tinyurl.com/as93cpm

Good luck! If you have any questions, I can try to help, but I am in no way an expert!

Ok so the hardness is measured in "grains per gallon" which makes no sense but it turns out to mean 107ppm as a conversion factor lol. I hope you declorinate your water also. Without a pH reading its hard telling whether your ph is high or low since your getting tannins/astringency. Im currently battling this problem with my IPAs but my HCO3 is 235ppm. Use ez water excel spread sheet (google it) and use that water report you posted and plug in those numbers. Then fill out the needed info and look at the room temp mash ph. If its under 5.2 then id add chalk (amounts via the spreadsheet) if its too high (over 5.6) then cut your water with distilled or RO. Just play with the spreadsheet a little. But for a stout id never add anthing other than chalk, cacl(maybe), or distilled/ro water.

Also. My water company didnt post anthing for me to read so i emailed them. I was shocked at how helpful they were. ( i sort of lied and said i was opening a brewery and needed to know the folowing info) but i had a representative email me and give me all the info i wanted. To this day im still shocked, and i really did not expect my water company to be so concerened or interested in my needs lmao so tell them ur opening a brewery, i think it helps