Ss Brewing Technologies Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > anyone done a brew in a bag
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-26-2012, 12:36 AM   #41
ajf
Senior Member
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
ajf's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Long Island
Posts: 4,643
Liked 99 Times on 93 Posts
Likes Given: 39

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePonchoKid View Post
barley as lightly kilned as possible? is there a name for that? i'm doing all grain btw
Yes, it's called pilsner malt which produces more DMS than any other malt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePonchoKid View Post
it doesn't surprise me that no one is considering the viability. they're all old timers here. they no doubt have tons of knowledge and wisdom. less so ideas
If you think that ignorance is a substitute for knowledge and wisdom, then I feel sorry for you.

In my opinion, those who have expressed reservations about your suggestion have considered the viability, and that is why they expressed reservations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePonchoKid;4439932i
might not be able to get 30 ibu reasonably on a 1 min boil, but i can on 3 min
I wouldn't be too sure about that. IBU calculators may indicate that you can, but they are just guesstimators based on assumptions that you are following commonly accepted practices, which you aren't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePonchoKid View Post
as for DMS, the document that i was linked to never described definitively how much there is or how much of a problem it is. So I don't see the problem in giving this a try
Just because one link doesn't give you the information that you think you need, doesn't mean that the information is not available.
Principle of Brewing Science by George Fix gives this information, and I suspect a Google search would also provide it.

If you are still set on following up on your idea, I suggest you do a google search on boiling wort. That will confirm all the reservations expressed in this thread, as well as introducing a whole bunch of other reasons why you should not try this.

-a.
__________________

There are only 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't.

ajf is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-26-2012, 03:04 AM   #42
joshareed
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 18
Liked 3 Times on 2 Posts

Default

If you're interested in this idea, I'd definitely check out a Berliner Weisse. Mine is 70/30 pilsner/wheat, no boil. Not a single of the 12 score sheets I got from competitions, including NHC regional and final rounds mentioned DMS.

__________________
joshareed is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-26-2012, 03:21 AM   #43
Leithoa
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Akron, ohio
Posts: 299
Liked 14 Times on 13 Posts
Likes Given: 14

Default

The reason the HBTwiki and I would bet any BYO or other article on DMS don't give definitive answers on how much DMS/precursors to expect is that it is heavily dependent on not only the degree of kilning(pilsner vs. pale vs roasted) but also the entire malting process. The levels of precursors are going to vary maltster to maltster and possibly even batch to batch. The only way to say for sure how much DMS to expect would be to get a hold of the lab assay for the specific lot of grain you will be using. This probably isn't feasible on a batch scale as most homebrew supply shops probably don't request nor keep any analysis document that come with their grain. They also probably don't keep lots of grain separate so it would be hard if not impossible to guarantee that you are getting the grain you have data for if they did hold onto the documents.
You might be able to get this data if you order grain in bulk but I'm guessing you don't.
Another option is to use the almost assured presence of DMS as part of your goal. There are styles where DMS is a desirable flavor. German Lagers for one. Really dark stouts are able to cover up DMS with lots of roasted grains
Back to the issue of hop utilization you would be advised to make use of first wort hopping (http://www.brew365.com/technique_firstworthopping.php). But again you won't get the smooth bitterness that comes with a long boil. The flavor and aroma will be there.
You're going to have to go through the BJCP style guides and figure out what flavor profiles you like that change the weaknesses of this technique into strengths/goals.
This beer is going to be a low bitter beer with noticeable DMS character. You could go with a sweet stout, or a Munich Helles. There are others but I don't know what style of beer you like.
Personally if I were doing a 1 minute boil, I'd to a partial mash using pre-bittered liquid extract and first wort hopping so I cna take advantage of the 15-20 minutes it takes to get things up to a boil.

__________________

1°: Graham's English Cider, Cider; 2°: Mango Melomel; Conditioning: Banana wine, Cider, Orange/Clover blossom mead, Cyser, JAOM, In like a Lion RIS ; Drinking: In like a Lion RIS

Leithoa is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2012, 04:31 PM   #44
TopherM
Vinz Clortho - the Keymaster of Gozer the Gozerian
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
TopherM's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 3,820
Liked 409 Times on 324 Posts
Likes Given: 21

Default

I'm laughing all the way through this thread. It reminded me of this gem:

Hitchhiker: You heard of this thing, the 8-Minute Abs?
Ted: Yeah, sure, 8-Minute Abs. Yeah, the excercise video.
Hitchhiker: Yeah, this is going to blow that right out of the water. Listen to this: 7... Minute... Abs.
Ted: Right. Yes. OK, all right. I see where you're going.
Hitchhiker: Think about it. You walk into a video store, you see 8-Minute Abs sittin' there, there's 7-Minute Abs right beside it. Which one are you gonna pick, man?
Ted: I would go for the 7.
Hitchhiker: Bingo, man, bingo. 7-Minute Abs. And we guarantee just as good a workout as the 8-minute folk.
Ted: You guarantee it? That's - how do you do that?
Hitchhiker: If you're not happy with the first 7 minutes, we're gonna send you the extra minute free. You see? That's it. That's our motto. That's where we're comin' from. That's from "A" to "B".
Ted: That's right. That's - that's good. That's good. Unless, of course, somebody comes up with 6-Minute Abs. Then you're in trouble, huh?
Hitchhiker: No! No, no, not 6! I said 7. Nobody's comin' up with 6. Who works out in 6 minutes? You won't even get your heart goin, not even a mouse on a wheel.
Ted: That - good point.
Hitchhiker: 7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 dwarves. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.
Ted: Why?
Hitchhiker: 'Cause you're f*ckin' fired!

__________________

Primary #1 - Oktoberfest
Primary #2 - Chamomile Honey Wheat
Primary #3 - EMPTY!
Secondary #1 - Downtown Flanders Brown (brewed August 2012)
Keg #1 - Coffee Vanilla Stout
Keg #2 - Fall of the Ukraine Baltic Porter (lagering in keg)
Keg #3 - EMPTY!
Bottled - NONE!

TopherM is offline
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2012, 04:53 PM   #45
gbx
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia
Posts: 629
Liked 72 Times on 59 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

with regards to DMS. I don't think it will be an issue. Pilsner malt has a lot of dms precursor but the boiling is what converts it to DMS. skip the boil, no dms (which is why people can do no boil berliner weisse). Grain is cheap so give it a try if you really want to. That said, if you are trying to save time, skip the mash and get some malt extract. If you want to save even more time, buy a wort in a bag or pre-hopped extract kit and I'm sure your results will be better. ...or save even more time and go to the store and buy commercially produced beer.

__________________
gbx is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2012, 07:24 PM   #46
madchemist83
Registered User
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Napa, California
Posts: 163
Default

And if u want to save time gettin drunk just butt chug a beer .. It's a new thing to do ....

__________________
madchemist83 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2012, 10:41 PM   #47
danielbt
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 122
Liked 6 Times on 6 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbx View Post
...the boiling is what converts it to DMS.
...no. Boiling drives off DMS precursors via volatilizing, which is also one of the reasons why you leave the lid off the brew kettle while boiling.

Precursors are created between 140F-180F...i.e., mashing temps.
__________________
danielbt is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-29-2012, 04:01 PM   #48
ODI3
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: LONDON, Ontario Canada
Posts: 202
Liked 8 Times on 8 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

From my understanding, it takes 20 min to sterylize everything in your kettle. So I wouldnt even consider anything less than 20 min, 30 to be safe.

__________________
ODI3 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-29-2012, 07:31 PM   #49
Domes
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Lancaster, Pennsylvania
Posts: 34
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePonchoKid
1 min boil brew?

I'm temped to try this.

How much water would I need for 10lbs of grain at 5.25 gal after a 1 min boil? 5.6 gal?
That's probably a little low, but close. About a half gallon. I've done one minute boils for both a Berliner Weisse and Lambic. No need to boil if your not adding hop bitterness. Precursors for DMS don't for until you start boiling.
__________________
Domes is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-05-2012, 03:38 PM   #50
ThePonchoKid
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto, CAN
Posts: 377
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 16

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domes View Post
No need to boil if your not adding hop bitterness. Precursors for DMS don't for until you start boiling.
And as already mentioned there are ways to add hop bitterness.

I'd probably pre boil and pre hop the water, get it to mash temps and add grain.

I'm going to try a 1 gallon batch, standard ale. I might even rinse the grains prior to mashing. Maybe even rinse them with starsan.
__________________
ThePonchoKid is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New brew schedule... or how to brew with toddlers! (input/advice sought!) Zymurgrafi All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 56 10-22-2013 05:22 PM
First all grain brew (with amazing brew sculpture pic) alpo All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 14 02-11-2013 03:50 AM
Sugar question on End of World Brew day brew Santoka All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 3 05-19-2011 06:51 PM
First brew w/ pictures (My only Patrial Mash brew, then going AG) DavidSteel All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 3 12-14-2009 01:34 AM
22 quart cooler, 2 4 gallon brew pots: how much can I brew AG? Cugel All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 9 05-31-2008 09:40 AM