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-   -   anyone done a brew in a bag (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/anyone-done-brew-bag-356316/)

ThePonchoKid 09-23-2012 10:43 PM

anyone done a brew in a bag
 
1 min boil brew?

I'm temped to try this.

How much water would I need for 10lbs of grain at 5.25 gal after a 1 min boil? 5.6 gal?

ajf 09-23-2012 11:12 PM

If you are going to boil for just 1 minutes, how are you going to get your hot break to precipitate, and where are you going to get you hop bitterness from?

-a.

ThePonchoKid 09-23-2012 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajf (Post 4438549)
If you are going to boil for just 1 minutes, how are you going to get your hot break to precipitate, and where are you going to get you hop bitterness from?

-a.

dump all the hops in in one go. can easily get 30ibu with 3-4oz high aa% hop pellets

Yooper 09-23-2012 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajf (Post 4438549)
If you are going to boil for just 1 minutes, how are you going to get your hot break to precipitate, and where are you going to get you hop bitterness from?

-a.

That, and what about boiling off of the DMS precursors?

ThePonchoKid 09-23-2012 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yooper (Post 4438565)
That, and what about boiling off of the DMS precursors?

What are those?

I was making yogurt today and that's what made me think about the 1 min boil. You only need to make the milk reach a boil before cooling it and adding your cultures. So if not 1 min, what's the shortest boil time you can possibly do?

CalmNcents 09-23-2012 11:52 PM

I'd do a one hour mash at a temp that suits the beer style, followed by one hour boil or 90 minutes for wheat. The water volume depends on your equipment loss and method of removing water from grain bag. I use the drip method, some will twist and squeeze the bag. I leave about .4 to .5 gal in the bag, I fear squeezing, that's just my way. If you tend to boil off 1.5 gallons in an hour you will need to add that to the pre boil volume. For me, that means .5 gal for grain loss & 1.5 gal evap loss in an hour, plus desired post boil volume 5.5 gal. So I would mash with 7.5 gallons for a non wheat beer. Keep the grain bag off the kettle base. You don't want a melted or burned sack. That's good advice for anytime. Enjoy, let me know how it turns out.

ajf 09-24-2012 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePonchoKid (Post 4438564)
dump all the hops in in one go. can easily get 30ibu with 3-4oz high aa% hop pellets

According to Promash, using 6 lbs US pale malt for a 5g batch, you would need 9.75 oz of 15%AA pellet hops to achieve 30 IBU with a 1 minute boil. Increase the malt to get an OG > 1.032, and you would need even more hops.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yooper (Post 4438565)
That, and what about boiling off of the DMS precursors?

Agreed, and there are probably many other reasons for not doing it, that neither of us have thought about.

-a.

ThePonchoKid 09-24-2012 12:45 AM

That's a lot of hops

Leithoa 09-24-2012 12:47 AM

For 10 lbs of grain and a desired batch size of 5.25 gallons you'd need:
Batch volume * (1 + grain absorption constant ) = 5.25*(1+0.2) = 6.3 gallons. Or 25.2 quarts.
You're going to want to split that up so you don't mash too thin. Most people recommend 1.25-2 quarts of water per pound of grain. So: 1.5 quarts/lb * 10lbs. = 15 quarts of mash water.
Then your sparge volume is: (batch size + loss) - Mash volume = (25.2 + your system loss) - 15 = 10.2 quarts = 2.6 gallons.

Like others have said, getting hop bitterness is going to be difficult since even if you can extract the correct compounds they won't have enough time to undergo the reactions that give you the smooth bitterness you want. I'm sure you could find already isomerized hop oils online somewhere but it won't be the same thing. If you're looking to cut down your brew day that bad you can buy pre-bittered liquid malt extract, but it's not known for its superior flavor profile.
The shortest boil I've done was a 40 minute APA, it was good but it lacked the maltiness I was after that comes from some of the sugars getting caramelized in the boil. You could probably get away with a 20-30 minute boil if you used pre-bittered/hopped liquid extract and then added your own flavor hops in the remaining time. I doubt you'd win ribbons with it but it wouldn't be bad by any means. Keep in mind the long boil is there for a number of reasons: Sanitization, hop oil isomerization, protein denaturing, sugar caramelization, etc. Unfortunately you can only cut so much time off of the brewing process.

DMS is an undesired flavor compound that tastes like corn. The chemicals needed to create it are boiled off during the 60-90 minute boil process. You can read more here. http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/ind...ethyl_sulfides

Yooper 09-24-2012 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajf (Post 4438701)



Agreed, and there are probably many other reasons for not doing it, that neither of us have thought about.

-a.

Probably because there are about 100 reasons to not do this, and only one to do it. To save time. If saving 59 minutes is so crucial, then using six times as many hops might be worth it if you could find a way to boil off the DMS precursors and get a good hot break while doing the 1 minute boil. I assume you'd kill the lactobacillus on the grain with a 1 minute boil.

Bringing it to a boil would take the same amount of time, cooling the wort would take the same amount of time, and so would everything else. The only time savings would be the 59 minutes of the boil. If hops are selling for $3/ounce, it would only cost $43 more in hops.

What? No takers?


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