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Old 06-22-2012, 12:44 AM   #41
blacksailj
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Cidahmastah how did your decoction vs infusion tests turn out? I've only done one decoction mash, a tripple, missed degrees each step but the final product was top notch. The mouth feel was very full while using only 2 row pale malt. I am wondering how it might have turned out with a simple single infusion mash and if the decoction mash actually lead to complexity to the beer. What are your findings?

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Old 06-22-2012, 03:13 PM   #42
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Cidahmastah how did your decoction vs infusion tests turn out? I've only done one decoction mash, a tripple, missed degrees each step but the final product was top notch. The mouth feel was very full while using only 2 row pale malt. I am wondering how it might have turned out with a simple single infusion mash and if the decoction mash actually lead to complexity to the beer. What are your findings?
I haven't done the infusion only brew just yet (but will try to post my results when I do).

So far I have a distilled water single mash out decoction boiled for 22minutes and a well water (close to dublin style) single mash out decoction boiled for 22 minutes.

I plan to do a single infusion with buoth the hard and distilled water, but due to my lack of lagering space I am limited to spread the batches out.

FWIW - my distilled water version was top notch IMO. I am currently lagering the second version so I don't know how that one will turn out (about 1 week lagering only)

Denny has reported a bit on the decoction and says he generally doesn't notice a marked improvement, and many tasters didnt either. Don't quote me fully, but Denny did a little test and those were the general results as I recall them (powerpoint presentation and all).

I personally think there probably is little palatable difference between an infusion and a decoction (I have not done a side by side though). But there is a certain sexy factor to performing one in your beers. So a blind taste, literally with a blind fold would be needed.

Until I do all the versions I won't be able to decide if water, and infusion/decotion impacts my lagers enough to warrant running to the store, or extending my brew day.


I have been curious about using 2row vs pilsner too. But never had done side by sides. I would be very interested to try that as well, just lack the space to do all my tests, I do 11G batches.

In the least my first lager attempts were sorta paying homage to the german brewing guidlines with the german pilsner and other malts. I am sure american versions would make a fantastic lager as well.
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Old 06-22-2012, 03:33 PM   #43
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Denny has reported a bit on the decoction and says he generally doesn't notice a marked improvement, and many tasters didnt either. Don't quote me fully, but Denny did a little test and those were the general results as I recall them (powerpoint presentation and all).
My results are here...http://www.ahaconference.org/wp-cont.../DennyConn.pdf .

If you add together those who preferred the single infusion beer and those who had no preference, it's clear there was no preference for the decocted beers. There were 5 beers and IIRC 19 blind tasters. The tasters were experienced homebrewers, BJCP judges and commercial brewers.
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Old 06-22-2012, 06:23 PM   #44
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My results are here...http://www.ahaconference.org/wp-cont.../DennyConn.pdf .

If you add together those who preferred the single infusion beer and those who had no preference, it's clear there was no preference for the decocted beers. There were 5 beers and IIRC 19 blind tasters. The tasters were experienced homebrewers, BJCP judges and commercial brewers.
Thanks Denny - I was looking all over for that!
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Old 07-01-2012, 12:49 PM   #45
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So I took a sample yesterday of this pilsner and its a real butter bomb still, after 4 weeks at 34 and 72 hours at 72. I am going to krausen the beer over the next week. What is the procedure for doing this? How much starter wort to how much dry Nottingham (the only yeast I have on hand). Also should I degass before pitching the fresh yeast its been carbing for the last 2 weeks?

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Old 07-03-2012, 11:55 AM   #46
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So I took a sample yesterday of this pilsner and its a real butter bomb still, after 4 weeks at 34 and 72 hours at 72. I am going to krausen the beer over the next week. What is the procedure for doing this? How much starter wort to how much dry Nottingham (the only yeast I have on hand). Also should I degass before pitching the fresh yeast its been carbing for the last 2 weeks?
Any help with this would be great.
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I ferment my lagers in frozen mammoths 3 miles below the ice in Greenland. I scream at my hop plants for 8 hours a day to make them not only bitter, but pissed off.
Desert Basin Brewery
Future Brews:
Fermenting: Desert Basin Pale Ale, Ninkasi Tricerihops Clone
Bottled: Desert Knight RIS, Scottish Winter Warmer
Kegged: Cleaning out the closet Porter
Gallons Brewed 2013: 15
Gallons Brewed 2012: 90.0
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Old 07-03-2012, 03:05 PM   #47
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Based on my experience, a qt. of actively fermenting wort should be a good amount. If you have a choice, use a lager yeast. If not, oh well.....

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Old 07-03-2012, 03:11 PM   #48
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As for using unfermented wort and adding yeast I am not sure. I know that true krausening is using fermenting wort which already has the active yeast present. For this I have a formula that has worked perfectly for many of beers I've done. A few things first: with proper fermentation at the correct temperatures and handling it is safe to assume, with out testing, that during fermentation the beer naturally absorbs 1 volume of CO2. If shaken or often agitated it might be less. That is on the skill of each brewer to decide. Also1 degree Plato drop gives off 2.5 volumes of CO2.

Equations:
(D*A)/B=C. Then,
(C*Z)/X=Y

A.Volume of CO2 needed in finished beer
B. 2.5 is the volume of CO2 dropped per 1degree Plato
C.Degree Plato needed to prime the beer.
D. Volume of CO2 saturation already in the beer (or assumed level usually 1.0)

X.Plato of fermenting beer - degrees Plato of the final gravity of the finished beer.
Y. Gallons of fermenting wort needed to prime (Z)sized keg/cask.
Z. The gallon size of keg.

If you still plan on using unfermented wort I would suggest using this equation for an estimate and add just a little amount of yeast or at least make a starter.

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Old 07-03-2012, 05:17 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by blacksailj View Post
As for using unfermented wort and adding yeast I am not sure. I know that true krausening is using fermenting wort which already has the active yeast present. For this I have a formula that has worked perfectly for many of beers I've done. A few things first: with proper fermentation at the correct temperatures and handling it is safe to assume, with out testing, that during fermentation the beer naturally absorbs 1 volume of CO2. If shaken or often agitated it might be less. That is on the skill of each brewer to decide. Also1 degree Plato drop gives off 2.5 volumes of CO2.

Equations:
(D*A)/B=C. Then,
(C*Z)/X=Y

A.Volume of CO2 needed in finished beer
B. 2.5 is the volume of CO2 dropped per 1degree Plato
C.Degree Plato needed to prime the beer.
D. Volume of CO2 saturation already in the beer (or assumed level usually 1.0)

X.Plato of fermenting beer - degrees Plato of the final gravity of the finished beer.
Y. Gallons of fermenting wort needed to prime (Z)sized keg/cask.
Z. The gallon size of keg.

If you still plan on using unfermented wort I would suggest using this equation for an estimate and add just a little amount of yeast or at least make a starter.
However, this appears to be for priming the beer. The poster above wanted to reduce diacetyl, a different issue. The yeast consumes the diacetyl, so adding actively fermenting wort is pretty important.
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Old 07-03-2012, 05:29 PM   #50
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In my readings, when krausening beer ment to prime with fermenting wort. When doing so it is known to clean up the yeast as you mentioned in the package. I don't know the term for it, but repitching fermenting wort and let it do it's a thing before carbonating and packaging ,it would still do a good job of cleaning it up. In that case I would follow your advise on the volume. At least if you want to krausen it again you the the formula. Good luck and keep us posted on the outcome.

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