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Old 02-15-2014, 04:31 PM   #31
lhommedieu
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I'm roughing out what I think a decoction brewing process might look like. This is just a basic schematic and does not reflect much detail, but I've found it helpful to parse out the broad outlines of the equipment used and how a decoction brewing system might operate. Apologies for the crudeness and watermarks (I'm trying out SmartDraw for the first time and probably won't go past the trial version). This system uses pumps to transfer hot water between vessels, and clear wort from the lauter tun to the brew pot. Mash and vorlauf is transferred manually. Obviously there are many other ways that one could configure his or her system; I currently have a gravity system and only two burners, but I think that this is the direction in which I want to go. Thanks to Vladoftrub for sharing his expertise here and elsewhere on the forum.

I tried to resize it but this is as large as I can get it; if you copy/paste it, then you can resize it.





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Old 02-21-2014, 12:57 PM   #32
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Default Weyermann Amber Wheat Beer Recipe Question

I'm looking at Weyermann's Amber Wheat Beer recipe on their website.

Weyermann® Dark Wheat Malt 50
Weyermann® Pilsner Malt 20
Weyermann® Munich Malt Type 2 15
Weyermann® Caraamber® 10
Weyermann® Caramunich® Type 3 5

Original gravity: 12.5 °P (1.0505)

Alcohol by volume: 5.8 %

Hops: 13 BU (Opal)

Yeast recommendation: Fermentis® Safbrew WB-06

They give what appears to be a step mash process:

Mashing in 37°C (98.6°F),
20 min 50°C (122°F),
35 min 63°C (145°F),
5 min 68°C (154°F),
20 min 72°C (162°F);
mash-out 77°C (171°F)

Am I correct in assuming that the same process can be achieved using the decoction method, as well?

Also: Could I make a simple Hefeweizen using just light wheat malt and Pilsner, say 60/40 or 50/50%, using the same process? (This would be my first attempt at a decoction recipe, at the end of April.) Beersmith says that I can, but gives me different rest times at approximately the same temperatures, and omits the 162 F rest.


Edit: Re. a simple Hefeweizen: Going back to read past posts I've come up with the following:

Dough in with cold water, then fire the tun to 37°C (98.6°F) Rest mash until the pH drops to below 5.8 and then pull first decoction.
Pull first decoction and bring thick mash to 122 F and rest for 20 minutes; bring to boil [for how long?] and then add back to thin mash to bring mash to 122. [Is there another 20 minute rest, here?]
Pull second decoction and bring thick mash to 144 F and rest for 35 minutes; bring to boil [for how long?] and then add back to mash to bring mash to 144. [Is there another 35 minute rest, here?]
Test for conversion.
Mash out.

I'm not sure what to do/the rational for the two steps before the mash out. Maybe a double decoction is appropriate for a Hefeweizen but a tripple is used for the Amber wheat beer because of the extra malts used?

5 min 68°C (154°F),
20 min 72°C (162°F);



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Old 02-22-2014, 06:16 AM   #33
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Weyermann's recipe can be made using tri decoction, as well as the one you proposed. The only problem with Weyermann's recipe with a decoction is that the cara's and munich would become assertive and throw off the balance. You are correct, Weyermann recipe is a step mash. The cara and munich were added to attempt to duplicate the same product as a decoction produces, using step infusion. Regardless, of the method used. The main mash will require two different beta rest temps and one alpha rest. Conversion rest temps, are conversion rest temps, regardless of the process. Also, there are two rests before boiling in the 1st decoction and one rest before boiling in the 2nd decoction. The rest temps are determined by pH. The rest time is determined by what you consider a thick mash is and again, pH. That's why I mentioned in various posts and maybe in a PM to you. That, if conversion in the decoction doesn't take place within 20 minutes, thin it down. Be aware that if you are not using floor malt and are using standard pils malt. Standard Weyermann pils sticks at pH 5.8, if you are using distilled water. Certainly, you aren't going to use distilled water for brewing. Due to water pH, etc., 5.8 pH might be unattainable. Another reason why cara and munich are in the recipe; they are fairly acidic and will aid in mash acidulation. Problems will arise when it comes to boiling the mash if pH is haywire. You will need to pay more attention to your water chemistry. If you are going to use standard pils, you added more into the equation. If for some odd reason, other than not being able to get floor malt, you decide to use standard pils. You are making things more difficult for yourself. Using wheat in a first ever decoction is going to be hard enough. Why create extra issues? I'd make the simpler recipe you proposed, adding sauer malz and using floor malt instead of standard Weyermann's pils. Low modified floor malt was used in German wheat beer before high modified was invented.

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Old 02-22-2014, 06:41 AM   #34
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We did a double decoction in our latest video. We do a poor job of explaining in detail what we’re doing (there are plenty of other great videos online for that). We do it more for entertainment and goofiness. But at least you can see how we continually stir, make the decoction too dry by accident, etc. Check it out, and if you guys like our vids please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
http://youtu.be/alfs4doeA9w

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Old 02-22-2014, 03:57 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VladOfTrub View Post
Weyermann's recipe can be made using tri decoction, as well as the one you proposed. The only problem with Weyermann's recipe with a decoction is that the cara's and munich would become assertive and throw off the balance. You are correct, Weyermann recipe is a step mash. The cara and munich were added to attempt to duplicate the same product as a decoction produces, using step infusion. Regardless, of the method used. The main mash will require two different beta rest temps and one alpha rest. Conversion rest temps, are conversion rest temps, regardless of the process. Also, there are two rests before boiling in the 1st decoction and one rest before boiling in the 2nd decoction. The rest temps are determined by pH. The rest time is determined by what you consider a thick mash is and again, pH. That's why I mentioned in various posts and maybe in a PM to you. That, if conversion in the decoction doesn't take place within 20 minutes, thin it down. Be aware that if you are not using floor malt and are using standard pils malt. Standard Weyermann pils sticks at pH 5.8, if you are using distilled water. Certainly, you aren't going to use distilled water for brewing. Due to water pH, etc., 5.8 pH might be unattainable. Another reason why cara and munich are in the recipe; they are fairly acidic and will aid in mash acidulation. Problems will arise when it comes to boiling the mash if pH is haywire. You will need to pay more attention to your water chemistry. If you are going to use standard pils, you added more into the equation. If for some odd reason, other than not being able to get floor malt, you decide to use standard pils. You are making things more difficult for yourself. Using wheat in a first ever decoction is going to be hard enough. Why create extra issues? I'd make the simpler recipe you proposed, adding sauer malz and using floor malt instead of standard Weyermann's pils. Low modified floor malt was used in German wheat beer before high modified was invented.
Thanks - that clarifies things for me, although my thought process is starting to resemble what a poorly done decoction process looks like at the sparging stage.

When you say "low modified floor malt," do you mean Weyermann's "Floor-Malted Bohemian Pilsner Malt?" Commercial sellers like Northern Brewer describe it as a "slightly under-modified malt," so I am not sure. You also mentioned, in another thread, that Weyermann's is coming out with a "Recipe" brand that will be less modified than their standard Bo Pils...


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