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Old 04-23-2013, 12:58 PM   #21
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"I believe (read) the solubility of the sugars from 168-185 are virtually the same"


http://sugartech.co.za/solubility/index.php

Yes, virtually. According to this calculator, it's 77 vs 79. So, a 2% difference in just the sparge portion will be somewhere around a 1% change overall. Not big, but not zero.



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Old 04-23-2013, 01:03 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by billl View Post
"I believe (read) the solubility of the sugars from 168-185 are virtually the same"


http://sugartech.co.za/solubility/index.php

Yes, virtually. According to this calculator, it's 77 vs 79. So, a 2% difference in just the sparge portion will be somewhere around a 1% change overall. Not big, but not zero.
I don't want to go further off-topic but Kai Troester has done studies, even sparging with cold water and there is no appreciable change in efficiency.

If I was batch sparging (and sometimes I do, sometimes I don't), I'd totally skip the mash out step.

When I batch sparge, I drain the mash tun completely, and use the water I would have used as a mash out in the first round of batch sparging (if all of the water won't fit in one round). It's quicker, easier, and will enhance efficiency. Try it!


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Old 04-23-2013, 01:26 PM   #23
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I'm concerned with your kettle/transfer loss. You started with 6.6 gal pre boil and only managed to get 4.5 gal into fermenter. Since your gravity pre boil vs original gravity was not a huge increase I'm guessing you didn't boil off too much water, but instead left a lot of wort in the kettle. That's your call if the goal is to minimize trub/hop junk in the fermenter but it is going to drag down your brewhouse efficiency. No way you can leave 15-20% of your sugar in the kettle and still hit 75-80% efficiency...

Hey and thanks for posting all the recipe details, very much appreciate reading things like the gravity temp corrections and detailed volumes.

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Old 04-23-2013, 01:43 PM   #24
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"I don't want to go further off-topic but Kai Troester has done studies, even sparging with cold water and there is no appreciable change in efficiency."

Yeah, I've read through that. The problem is that the impact is within the margin of error of the measurements. A 1% variance on a 1.060 beer is only .0006. It's not disproving the science, just confirming the scope of the affect.

And generally I don't mash out either since I batch sparge. I'd rather have an extra gallon of sparge water than a tiny bump in sugar solubility.

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Old 04-23-2013, 05:53 PM   #25
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Unless I read it wrong, you had to add unplanned water in both cases. First to raise your temp and second to achieve boil volume. This is where you lost your points. Also, you didn't specifically mention it, but do you stir in your sparge water? If not, I would start doing so. An aggressive stir and a 5 minute wait is my method.
In both instances I did have to add unplanned water. Going to try a different mash/sparge calculator on my next brew. I have been using the beersmith calculator. I did not mention it but yes I stir the sparge water for 2-3 min.
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:04 PM   #26
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I'm concerned with your kettle/transfer loss. You started with 6.6 gal pre boil and only managed to get 4.5 gal into fermenter. Since your gravity pre boil vs original gravity was not a huge increase I'm guessing you didn't boil off too much water, but instead left a lot of wort in the kettle. That's your call if the goal is to minimize trub/hop junk in the fermenter but it is going to drag down your brewhouse efficiency. No way you can leave 15-20% of your sugar in the kettle and still hit 75-80% efficiency...

Hey and thanks for posting all the recipe details, very much appreciate reading things like the gravity temp corrections and detailed volumes.
When I rack to the fermenter there is quite a bit of trub/hop junk left in the kettle, it's close to an inch thick. It wasn't like that until I started using whirlfloc and stopped putting my hops in muslin bags.
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:26 PM   #27
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"I believe (read) the solubility of the sugars from 168-185 are virtually the same"


http://sugartech.co.za/solubility/index.php

Yes, virtually. According to this calculator, it's 77 vs 79. So, a 2% difference in just the sparge portion will be somewhere around a 1% change overall. Not big, but not zero.
The solubility of sugars at different temperatures is not a meaningful figure as far as brewing is concerned.
It specifies how much sugar can be dissolved in water. i.e. what the saturation point is.
From http://chestofbooks.com/food/science/Experimental-Cookery/The-Solubility-Of-The-Sugars.html there is a chart that gives the solubility at different temperatures expressed in various different ways including specific gravity.
You will see that the 77% and 79% values equal 77 and 79 degrees Plato or specific gravities between 1.39? and 1.41? These figures are completely meaningless during a sparge, especially as the first runnings would have to be even denser (which is impossible).

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Old 04-24-2013, 12:33 AM   #28
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In both instances I did have to add unplanned water. Going to try a different mash/sparge calculator on my next brew. I have been using the beersmith calculator. I did not mention it but yes I stir the sparge water for 2-3 min.
Since you have Beersmith and you seem to do a good job taking notes, look for repeating trends and if need be, adjust your equipment variables and following that, your expected efficiency. Each system will vary. The key is tuning in yours so you can plan accordingly and nail your numbers consistently whatever they may be.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:38 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by hops2it View Post
Since you have Beersmith and you seem to do a good job taking notes, look for repeating trends and if need be, adjust your equipment variables and following that, your expected efficiency. Each system will vary. The key is tuning in yours so you can plan accordingly and nail your numbers consistently whatever they may be.
The other thing I would suggest, even with Beersmith!, is that when you're ready to brew your next batch, toss your recipe and volumes and stuff up for us to eyeball.

Even though everybody's system is different, most of us have enough experience to notice when a volume or projected strike temperature is out of whack. Grain absorption is standard (about .125 gallons/pound) so you'll lose maybe a gallon of liquid in the mash (depending on grain amount), and your boil off rate is likewise static. We can take a lot and say, "Whoa- 15 gallons is way too much for a 6 gallon batch!" or whatever.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:28 AM   #30
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It reads like you've got accurate temp measuring devices. I'd look at the grain crush. Denny offers good mashing tips which have helped push my extraction into the upper 80s. Now I have to scale down grain bill recipes.
Hey, that's good to hear!


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