All Grain Advantages?

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All-grain brewing is, as the kids today say, da shizzle.

I've got a nice wet blanket here to throw on the enthusiasm, however. :D

Before you go dropping coin and effort on an AG setup - regardless how Frankenstein - take a look at your fermentation. If you're going to spend money, time and effort, spend it on fermentation first. What goes in to your beer means nothing if you just dump in some yeast and stick the fermenter in a corner.* Yeast are your only living ally in the brewing process. Your actions in managing them influence their performance.

If you don't have the means of growing your own yeast starters, get it. Controlling the health and amount of yeast pitched is crucial.

If you don't have the equipment to control your ferment temperature, get it. There are lots of methods, from wet t-shirts to digitally-controlled freezers.

Your beers will improve dramatically if you learn about managing fermentation and implement solid procedures. Once you get that under control, go ahead and learn about mashing.

That's what I'd do - hell, that's what I did. You'll thank me for it. ;)

Cheers!

Bob

* Frankly, I'm never less than stunned at brewers who agonize over what grains and hops they use, their water chemistry, etc., and then just dump in a sachet of yeast and let the bucket sit in the basement. [sigh]


Have you been spying on this here noob? ;) I just got my fridge for fermentaion chamber conversion a couple of weeks ago. I'm pretty sure that my fermentation has led to more inconsistency than any other aspect of my brewing.
 
I agree with the fermentation control and yeast management as a crucial first step. After that I am on the other side of the fence of many people here. I think cobbling together a system is a waste of money. I literally wasted ~$1,300 on stuff I no longer use or upgraded out of in the first 4 years of brewing. I would save until you can have a cohesive system that will really work.

Upgrade your fermentation situation. Then plan and make the jump to AG with a well planned system. It doesn't have to be fancy, just well planned.

For example, I was helping fellow member BillyVegas with this same thought last week:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/all-grain-rims-herms-setup-new-box-125310/

I think $1000 is the minimum amount you should have saved before jumping into AG. Its just my opinion, but I bet you would thank me if you waited.
 
I think cobbling together a system is a waste of money. I literally wasted ~$1,300 on stuff I no longer use or upgraded out of in the first 4 years of brewing. I would save until you can have a cohesive system that will really work.

Agreed 100%. I have so much extra stuff that I've only used once or twice and "upgraded" bc it didn't fit into the system I envisioned. I'll eventually get around to selling some of it, but you never get all your money back.
 
+1 Temperature control is a major factor in great beer without the off flavors.

+1 I also have a load of extra crap that I cobbled together. Really need to sell those to free up some room. Even my first almost finished rig is somewhat obsolete in my mind before I have even got it 100% going. HOWEVER, it is hard to figure out what will work for you if you have not used any of the stuff so some form of experimentation is helpful. Wish someone had set up a Rent A Rig brewing company!
 
I just posted this:

http://blogs.homebrewtalk.com/Boerderij_Kabouter/Boerderij_Kabouters_Suggested_AG_Starter_Rig/

It explains some of my reasoning. And trust me... that cobbled together system cost WAY more than you think it did. I tried to put together a super cheap workable system for a friend of mine and found out it would actually cost over $700 for a super cheap cooler mod system that he would have been pissed to own by his third brew. Little fittings and cheap coolers add up crazy fast. Most of us just never write these cost down.
 
my LHBS convinced me not to jump into all grain....for now...

He won me over with his arguments about all the extra equipment and the lack of consistency. Also, a pretty damn good beer can be made with quality extract and steeping grains.

Sill, I'm a geek, so I'll probably dip my toe into the all grain mash tun eventually.

For me, I've never done extract before. I was interested in getting into the hobby for a while and I watched an excellent 8 part video on YouTube (search for "Chris Knight all grain"), then researched how to build a mash tun from a cooler and just jumped in. My first batch, surprisingly, came out really well and was a big hit. Easier than I expected too: you don't need a science degree to make good beer doing all grain.

Definitely recommend viewing that YouTube series as an excellent primer...
 
Have you been spying on this here noob? ;) I just got my fridge for fermentation chamber conversion a couple of weeks ago. I'm pretty sure that my fermentation has led to more inconsistency than any other aspect of my brewing.

Bing! Give that Gnome a cigar!

Imagine your yeast colony as a vacuum cleaner. The yeast's job is to attenuate the bitter wort to a level you find satisfactory. The vacuum cleaner's job is to suck up crud until all the crud is gone.

If you just let the Roomba go on its own, it'll work at random until its batteries run out. Will it suck up all the crud? Theoretically; you'll have to check it periodically and do a final spot-check to make sure. And even then you'll probably have to hit spots it's missed. It'll take an hour to do one small room, too.

Now, contrast that with a Dyson upright. Yeah, you have to push it about, direct it toward the crud. But you'll ensure every square inch of the floor is clean, having watched and directed where it goes. And you'll be done in fifteen minutes.

'owzat for a metaphor? :D

Bob
 
As has been said before a $100 - $150's for a cooler mash tun, a turkery fryer, immersion chiller and a propane tank (for the turkey fryer) is all you need. If you're willing to shop around or DIY you could probably do it for cheaper.

I second the fermentation control. It doesn't matter how well your recipe is or how great your process is if you just let the carboy sit at ambient temperature. There are many techniques both expensive and cheap that you can find on the site to help you.

You do not need to drop a grand on an all grain system! If you're very serious about brewing and want a system then go for it but if you're interested in learning the processes and just want to see what its all about than go the simpler route.
 
I tried to put together a super cheap workable system for a friend of mine and found out it would actually cost over $700 for a super cheap cooler mod system that he would have been pissed to own by his third brew. Little fittings and cheap coolers add up crazy fast. Most of us just never write these cost down.

I'm sorry, but this is BS. You DO NOT need a huge rig to brew AG. You don't need a propane burner. Hell, you don't even need a cooler or dedicated MLT. I have done full boil 5 gallon AG batches on my stovetop reusing my old 5-gallon pot from my extract days, a 7.5-gallon turkey fryer pot that I think cost $30, a paint strainer bag, and a 25' wort chiller.

If you're going to do larger batches, 10+ gallons then you get into needing dedicated vessels to hold liquids, pumps or at least some kind of gravity rig to get things flowing between vessels, etc. But for 5 gallon batches, you just don't need all the crap.
 
Diffing opinions. I brewed for a long time for a lot of batches on a crappy system and I can tell you it would have been cheaper for me to start buyinig toward a good, well designed system from the start that to waste the amount of money I did. I didn't say you have to take my advice, but you will be amazed at the cost of your so called cheap system. Not to mention the headaches and screw ups that ensue from having a cobbled together system. You can say that you brew perfectly with your gobbled system, but we all now that even with the best planning and a really nice system, it is still difficult to hit all your numbers dead on. A cheap or poorly thought out system just increases the chance for a screw up and makes the brewday less relaxing and fun.

I would like to see a parts list for everything a brewer needs to go AG for $150. If you can show me that, I will shut up. Also, I don't see the point in brewing 5g's AG. Same time for 10g, twice the beer. Minimal upgrade. In addition, most people can't boil 6-7 gallons on a home stove. I know I can't even with the tips given here.
 
9g Stainless Boiling Kettle... $165
10g Cooler for Mashing... $45
Valve and false bottom for mash tun... $20
Propane burner... $75
5g plastic bucket to hold sparge water... $15
Propane tank... $50
Brewing the best stuff on earth... priceless!

Jk! I think all grain is a bit more expensive than $100 to get the right equipment, but I also think you can do it much much cheaper than $1000 .

As with all previous post, I agree that all grain will produce much better beer that will taste fresher. The control aspect of it is also very nice. I have two pieces of advice for people wanting to make the switch. First, be prepared to invest. As you can see above, this is not a 50 or $100 upgrade to your current extract gear. Be prepared to dish out a few hundred. Second, and probably the most useful, find someone who brews all grain (possibly through your LHBS, you can always find a beer geek there that will be willing to help a fellow homebrewer) and go brew with them to see the entire process. Ask questions about all the steps and then the transition will be much smoother.

Cheers!
 
I just posted this:

http://blogs.homebrewtalk.com/Boerderij_Kabouter/Boerderij_Kabouters_Suggested_AG_Starter_Rig/

It explains some of my reasoning. And trust me... that cobbled together system cost WAY more than you think it did. I tried to put together a super cheap workable system for a friend of mine and found out it would actually cost over $700 for a super cheap cooler mod system that he would have been pissed to own by his third brew. Little fittings and cheap coolers add up crazy fast. Most of us just never write these cost down.


While I agree that one should have at LEAST $1000 to build a brewing rig that they would not want to upgrade after their 3rd batch there is a big difference between building a rig and gathering the supplies to go all grain. I spent less than $150 to go all-grain. That is for EVERYTHING that is needed beyond basic extract equipment. That even includes the $40 I spent on your old IC. It also includes the manifold, propane tanks, burners, everything additional I spent to make the jump.

I would love to have a brewing rig but my space constraints and apartment living have forced me to mash in my kitchen and boil outside so a rig is not feasible. Lets say I do want to upgrade my current setup to a nice rig someday almost everything I can use (The keggle, burner, propane tank).

So to say to someone who is contemplating going AG you'll need $1000 or you won't be happy, is in my mind scaring them beyond reason with an unusually high start-up costs. They can spend $150-250 to obtain the basic cooler, keggle, burner equipment and make fine beer and use the majority in a future upgrade. Unless they plan to use stainless march pumps and Blichmans in the future like your rig uses, I doubt they will be upset with the basics needed to go all grain.

Let's face it, when we start this hobby the majority of us don't know how much time and money it will eventually take from us. If I heard before I started that in order to make good AG beer, I'd need to drop a grand on equipment, that would have turned me off big time. I think the majority of us brewers are very happy with our hobbled together system that didn't cost a grand and we still make damn fine beer from it.
 
I'm sorry, but this is BS. You DO NOT need a huge rig to brew AG. You don't need a propane burner. Hell, you don't even need a cooler or dedicated MLT. I have done full boil 5 gallon AG batches on my stovetop reusing my old 5-gallon pot from my extract days, a 7.5-gallon turkey fryer pot that I think cost $30, a paint strainer bag, and a 25' wort chiller.

Yall are both right. Some people are happy with K.I.S.S. and others, like myself, are constantly looking for the better/best way to do things because I just can't help myself. :) I started out really simple because I was a little overwhelmed w/ the process, but as I got some batches under my belt I found more and more annoying things about my system/process that I just couldn't stand and wanted to improve upon.

Can you brew great beer on the cheap? Yes of course, I don't think he was saying otherwise. I believe he was just putting out a warning that going super cheap at the beginning isn't always the best method for everyone.
 
I would like to see a parts list for everything a brewer needs to go AG for $150. If you can show me that, I will shut up. Also, I don't see the point in brewing 5g's AG. Same time for 10g, twice the beer. Minimal upgrade. In addition, most people can't boil 6-7 gallons on a home stove. I know I can't even with the tips given here.

This is my system:

Keggle (From CL, we can debate the ethics all day long on here) - $20
SQ-14 Burner - $50
5 gal rubbermaid cooler (I had one laying around so it was free but $30 if you had to buy one) - $0
empty propane tank (From CL) - $5
MLT braid system (FlyGuy's design) - $25
Used IC - $40
Total $140

$170 if one would have to buy the MLT

That is my total cost. My keggle is not that modified or have a drain on it as I currently use my Autosiphon to empty the keggle. It isn't the best method but it does work and I'm happy with it until I upgrade to put a ball valve on it. When I do I would have spent $0 extra than if I had put one on from the start so no money was wasted. Everything else like the autosiphon, hoses, my extract pot used as my HLT was equipment I used to brew extract.

Also even though I bought my IC from you when I was still using extract I included it as an all-grain cost. If it hadn't then I would have spent $100 in additional equipment to go AG and I am happy with my system and when I upgrade to another system I would use everything again with the exception of my 5 gal MLT which I would upgrade to a 10 gal. In my case it did not matter since my MLT was build out of a cooler I had laying around.
 
Also even though I bought my IC from you when I was still using extract I included it as an all-grain cost. If it hadn't then I would have spent $100 in additional equipment to go AG and I am happy with my system and when I upgrade to another system I would use everything again with the exception of my 5 gal MLT which I would upgrade to a 10 gal. In my case it did not matter since my MLT was build out of a cooler I had laying around.

I guess this is the sentiment that I lost in my posts. You obviously have thought about all your purchases and made good moves with equipment that you can build on. I am doing the same.

I have not spent or finished my system. I have it designed and I can purchase toward it. This way I do not waste a ton of money like I was doing before. My system will cost a lot, but it is not all at once. With the system I listed, you can start brewing on "the dream system" after you have spent about $250, but it won't be as nice as it is when finished.

The main point is to think before buying so you don't by junk that gets thrown away.

:off: Good to hear the IC is still running strong! Warhawk pride :D
 
I've got a nice wet blanket here to throw on the enthusiasm.....,
If you don't have the means of growing your own yeast starters, get it. Controlling the health and amount of yeast pitched is crucial.

If you don't have the equipment to control your ferment temperature, get it. There are lots of methods, from wet t-shirts to digitally-controlled freezers.

Your beers will improve dramatically if you learn about managing fermentation and implement solid procedures. Once you get that under control, go ahead and learn about mashing.

Cheers!

Bob

[sigh]

Bob, I strongly agree w/ fermentation temp contol and taking good care of your yeast!

However, I strongly disagree that a newb needs to be concerned about growing his own yeast cultures.

A newb can certainly make a nice beer by pitching an inexpensive dry yeast, No?:mug:

And please, dry blankets only.

Cheers,
Mike
 
I would like to see a parts list for everything a brewer needs to go AG for $150. If you can show me that, I will shut up. Also, I don't see the point in brewing 5g's AG. Same time for 10g, twice the beer. Minimal upgrade. In addition, most people can't boil 6-7 gallons on a home stove. I know I can't even with the tips given here.

I already gave you a parts list for less than $150. Here is exactly what you need to upgrade from stovetop extract to AG:

7.5 gallon turkey fryer pot $30
5 gallon paint strainer bag $2 (you can get 2 for this price at HD/Lowes/etc.)
A good thermometer for monitoring your mash temps. I use a thermapen. $75
But you can definitely go cheaper.
25' wort chiller $50
2 binder clips (thanks DeathBrewer for this idea) $0.50
Re-using my 5-gallon pot from extract partial boils $0

Just because YOU don't see the point in doing 5 gallon batches doesn't mean other people don't see the advantages, chief of which is you eliminate the need for all those fittings, extra vessels, tubing, etc. that is necessary due to weight and size differences between 5- and 10-gallon batches. Also, there's a lot of people, myself included, who live somewhere that don't have space for a huge HERMS/RIMS/etc. system. A 10 gallon batch is simply out of the question. Keeping it simple and on the stovetop eliminates a lot of unnecessary stuff that you really, really truly do not need to do AG. To do a full boils on the stovetop, I split my pot over two burners and crank them both to the max to get it going.

I find your tone elitist and exclusionary. It's like you are actively trying to discourage people from trying AG unless they are willing to go straight from partial boil extract batches to full boil 10 gallon batches on a dedicated HERMS system. That's completely ridiculous. Sure, it's nice to have, but to say it is necessary is out of line.
 
I already gave you a parts list for less than $150. Here is exactly what you need to upgrade from stovetop extract to AG:

7.5 gallon turkey fryer pot $30
5 gallon paint strainer bag $2 (you can get 2 for this price at HD/Lowes/etc.)
A good thermometer for monitoring your mash temps. I use a thermapen. $75
But you can definitely go cheaper.
25' wort chiller $50
2 binder clips (thanks DeathBrewer for this idea) $0.50
Re-using my 5-gallon pot from extract partial boils $0

Just because YOU don't see the point in doing 5 gallon batches doesn't mean other people don't see the advantages, chief of which is you eliminate the need for all those fittings, extra vessels, tubing, etc. that is necessary due to weight and size differences between 5- and 10-gallon batches. Also, there's a lot of people, myself included, who live somewhere that don't have space for a huge HERMS/RIMS/etc. system. A 10 gallon batch is simply out of the question. Keeping it simple and on the stovetop eliminates a lot of unnecessary stuff that you really, really truly do not need to do AG. To do a full boils on the stovetop, I split my pot over two burners and crank them both to the max to get it going.

I find your tone elitist and exclusionary. It's like you are actively trying to discourage people from trying AG unless they are willing to go straight from partial boil extract batches to full boil 10 gallon batches on a dedicated HERMS system. That's completely ridiculous. Sure, it's nice to have, but to say it is necessary is out of line.

You forgot a mash tun. Mine worked out to be about $80. $50 for a 10 gallon rubbermaid cooler and $30 for hardware. Sure you can buy a smaller or cheaper cooler, but I figure buy good and buy once.
 
I think $1000 is the minimum amount you should have saved before jumping into AG. Its just my opinion, but I bet you would thank me if you waited.

I strongly disagree 100%. You may not believe this, but I get so much enjoyment out of my ghetto setup. And I make some pretty f'in good beer, if I don't say so myself.

It is important to know the problems before you buy the solution. So, I would ALWAYS recommend that the budding brewer spend as little as possible and brew as much as possible. Learn the process, find the problems with it, then spend $$. That is my opinion.
 
My tone is not elitist. I am just trying to tell people what I wish someone would have told me 4 years ago. You may be fine with the system you are talking about. Many are not. All options should be presented and far to often people are on here saying, "GO AG! GO AG! It only cost $5!" and I don't believe that to be true. I followed that logic, and as a result am still spending money on my rig that I wish I would be spending on ingredients. I only brew half as much as I wish because most of my cash goes toward my system. If someone had told me to plan things out a few years ago I would have this now:

Brouwerij_Boerderij_Kabouter_V2_6_1.png


Instead of my still cobbled system.

Many like to do things on the cheap and I understand that. It is fine. I just think people are better served by sticking with extract longer and going AG when you have a system that you will actually be happy with.

It is the same line of thinking as people who build up HB as the best thing since sliced bread. In all likelihood your first couple homebrews are going to be bad beer. Drinkable and fun for sure and they will make you happy, but people who say they are brewing beer at professional quality in their first 2-3 brews are either lairs or have horrible palettes.

Again, I am not being a downer, I just think both sides of the argument need to be presented. I think great beer can be made with extract given good yeast management and fermentation schedules. What is the rush to give yourself a headache with a cobbled system?
 
you can brew AG stove top, BUT to brew with ease and have more control over everything I HIGHLY reccomend a cooler tun! if you do 5 gallon batches, i would just get a 10 gallon cooler. they say that a 5 gallon tuns can hold 15 pounds of grain, but add water and you are up to the TIPPY TOP and spill some mash water.
 
I strongly disagree 100%. You may not believe this, but I get so much enjoyment out of my ghetto setup. And I make some pretty f'in good beer, if I don't say so myself.

I do believe you and am not knocking it. I am just saying I think there are better ways to go.

It is important to know the problems before you buy the solution. So, I would ALWAYS recommend that the budding brewer spend as little as possible and brew as much as possible. Learn the process, find the problems with it, then spend $$. That is my opinion.

I thought this way 4 years and thousands of dollars ago.

:EDIT: Also, I am in no way saying that my system is the best or the only way to go. I just use it as an example of the kind of planning and forethought that can produce a great system without wasting money. There are countless awesome systems on this site. Pick and choose the features you think are best. If you don't know what is best, find out before buying anything (e.g., brew with some other people, talk to people here, watch brewcasts like Bobby_M's right now, etc.).
 
You forgot a mash tun.

No, I didn't. 2 pots, a stove, and a paint strainer bag do the trick.

That is to say, certainly you can put together a cooler MLT and use it, but it's definitely not necessary. When I first went AG I built a 12-gallon MLT for about $45 for all the parts, and I used it a bunch. But then I decided it was a lot of extra work to use that cooler and maybe I could try just doing it in my "extra" pot on the stovetop. It was so much easier to manage the entire process on the stovetop than with the MLT involved. I now do maybe half of my batches using the MLT and half on the stovetop. I also reuse my MLT as a fermentation chamber.
 
I stayed away from all grain for years, thinking it was too hard, or required equipment I didn't have or could not afford.

Thanks to this site, I have done 3 AG batches and have no plans to look back.

I had a cooler that I converted into a tun for under 5 bucks. I purchased an extra cheapo 5 gallon pot at K-mart for 25 bucks and I'm in business. I actually did my first AG with no extra equipment purchases, I just followed Deathbrewers ideas and made beer. and I was Stoked! I used to pay nearly $45.00 for a batch of beer and now my ingrediants cost half of that.

I do dream of building a neat brewing rig but living in my apartment and with my current financial issues, I won't be doing that anytime soon.

I can't believe how easy AG is. The only time increase is waiting for a higher volume of water to boil on my TINY stove and waiting for an hour while my mash mashes...
 
I forgot to actually address the money issue. My budget only allows me to spend about $120 total a month for personal stuff. That includes clothes, haircuts, and anything I want to buy myself. You would be surprised how fast a year goes. If you have a clear plan of what to buy, you would be amazed at how fast your dream system can be yours. I will probably have mine done in another year.
 
So, I would ALWAYS recommend that the budding brewer spend as little as possible and brew as much as possible.

I agree...to a point. I did the same thing that probably most ppl do. I bought an extract kit from from my LHBS, made some ****ty beer, and over time eventually upgraded to the system I have now (which I'm still not totally pleased with but the beer is better!). I wish I had found this forum a long time ago because now I'm stuck with a whole bunch of stuff I don't need.

I guess this whole argument comes down to what kind of person you are. I've always been a tinkerer and can't help but find flaws/annoyances in my process. I do this with everything.

When I bought my first motorcycle, everybody was telling me "man, buy something w/ a small engine, get comfortable with it, and upgrade later if you want". Well, I'm the type that usually knows what I want. I knew I wouldn't be happy with a little 250cc enduro, but I let my friends talk me into it. It didn't take one month before I wanted something else...so I sold it and went all the way up to a 1200cc Buell that I'm in love with. It would have saved me a lot of time, and a little money, to just go straight for what I wanted from the beginning.

Of course like Boer and I both mentioned, some people are perfectly happy w/ the simplest setup they can put together and I think that's awesome! I wish I could be more like that...but as always, different strokes for different folks. I think everybody needs to decide for themselves what is truly "necessary" and what isn't.
 
It would be important to you if you knew what you were missing ;)

I just brewed with basically my full system just with no whistles two weeks ago and it was by far my most enjoyable brewday ever. by...far....

T o each his own as has been said. I am a mechanical engineer with a strong creative side and a desire for efficiency and order. Clutter and make shift systems make me want to kill a man.
 
There are many things in the mix in this discussion about the move to AG brewing.....which I have done within the past month. Actually, if you count my first brewday as "moving to AG," then it's only been 3 weeks ago.

First. There seem to be the people like "CharlosCarlies" in the previous post, who know exactly what they want, but don't get it right away, for one reason or another. I'm not qualified to speak to that, because I've only been brewing (in this incarnation...another story) for a bit under two years, and I didn't have any idea when I started of where I wanted to go, or what I'd need to get there.

Second. When I started, since I didn't know what I wanted, I did what large numbers of people have probably done- bought a kit from a supplier (Midwest's Intermediate kit, which gave me a great start, and even now is only $130), and started making extract kits w/ specialty grains. I bought a 7.5 gal. SS brewpot on sale for $40 delivered. I quickly realized that I was going to need a few other items to ease the process. I bought a long-stemmed thermometer for $15, and a "vinator" pump to sanitize bottles for $20. That Christmas, Santa brought me a copper wort chiller, $50. Pretty much everything else was already in the kitchen, so I was brewing away for a while.

I took some good advice and started doing full 5-gal boils from the start, but even with splitting the heating among 3 vessels to speed up the time to boil, our Jenn-Air propane cooktop would only produce an anæmic bubbling boil. That resulted in a $40 investment to insulate the brewpot.

The logistics of moving bottles around quickly led me to some 10 gal. totes for $6 apiece, that will each hold 32 longnecks. I ended up with a half-dozen of those, total $30.

I ran out of existing shelving for "inventory," so I bought some cheap shelving on sale for $25.

At some point I needed more secondary fermenter space, so I bought a couple of $5 Better Bottles, $36.

Along the way, I bought some "small parts" that probably add up to $50.

That is my extract investment, and adds up to somewhere between $400 - 450.

As 2009 progressed, a variety of factors convinced me it was time to move to AG. These may or may not be relevant to others who've done the same, so I'll pass on that here, since we're talking investment.

I bought the Rubbermaid 10 gal. cooler ($40 at HD) and a Bargain Fittings kit ($45) and had my MLT for $85.

I bought the Bayou Classic SP-10 burner for $55.

Got a cheap refractometer on eBAy for $25 delivered.

Decided I was tired of waiting for thermometers to give readings, so I splurged on the new water-resistant Thermapen - $104 delivered.

Almost as an afterthought, I decided that I was going to crush my own grain, and bought a "Corona" type mill for $24 delivered, and maybe $2 worth of hardware to achieve a suitable mount.

I am now on my 3rd AG batch, and have around $750 invested in brewing gear (OK, I may have forgotten a few things, add another $100 if you want) I think everything's working the way I expect, from my own brewing experience, what I've read, and what other people have told me.

I bottle- period. I make ales- period.

Now. If anyone wants to convince me to keg, keezer, RIMS, HERMS, PID, recirculate, single, double, triple tier, fire away. But I've done a limited amount of reading here and there on the forums, and so far, I remain unconvinced that this stuff is going to improve my life or my beer. I realize I have an advantage in having a basement that stays at a pretty much ideal fermentation temperature year-round, but that's just the luck of the draw.

I am -somewhat- attracted by the idea of 10 gallon batches, strictly from the standpoint of having to brew fewer times, but.....not enough. I'm brewing maybe 20-25 5 gallon batches a year, and can't see my needs changing any time soon. In fact, I'm now brewing two-thirds of what the law allows. I really think the only arguments I'd be susceptible to at this point would be how moving to a different system of brewing would materially increase the quality of my beer. And since my first AG batches aren't even bottled yet, we'll have to wait on that.
 
I'm a mechanic and LOVE cool tools that make my job easier,but for some reason to me brewing is more about the process than the equipment.
I hit my strike temps exactly to the degree,eff. is ALWAYS 72%(and I'm happy w/ that),OG-FG and volumes are always exactly what I've figured.My beer is great.I have absolutely no reason to upgrade.
I'm not knocking you wanting to have a badass system but some of us actually don't want that.
I've actually thought recently about what I would want to upgrade in my system and honestly can find not 1 thing I want.
Awhile back I built a rifle to shoot accurately long range-custom trigger,big mil-dot scope,expensive rings-and it shoots 1/2" groups at 100yds.Exactly what I wanted.
You know which rifle I grab when I have to shoot something?NOT that one.I grab my single shot .22mag w/ iron sights!
I figure if I built a big brew rig it would be like that rifle that just sits in the closet in its case while I'm actually using that single-shot.
I just don't want to take the fun out of my brew day and for me that's what it's about-fun.
 
I am generally happy with my brewing process. Any upgrades I make are only toys really. I will go electric soon because buying propane is a pain. I will build a HERMS one day because I already have the pump and liked my experiments with an ad hoc HERMS I did a while back...............But yeah, I don't actually need to do that stuff. It's just toys. :)

I had thought that I needed to upgrade some stuff for a better consistency, but experience is curing that problem over time.
 
Part of the fun of having a hobby, to me, is learning and growing as I go.
 
I'm almost scared to post about AG but as a new brewer (yes, extract) I still think I did better by starting out the way I did. I am only on #4 and still have LOTS of questions about equipment and temps. This has been an interesting thread.
I guess it's like buying a car. Do I NEED GPS? Can I get it without on-star? Do I have to have leather seats with a heater?
 
I would like to see a parts list for everything a brewer needs to go AG for $150. If you can show me that, I will shut up.

two coleman 48 qt coolers, picked up curbside.............free
11 gal stainless bayou classic /w stainless burn............$23
clearance at COSTCO..HELLUVA DEAL
Propane tank at township recycle station.....................free
washing machine braid...found 4 in dad's utility closet....free
two 2000w heatsicks...............................................$65
curbside wooden bunkbed repurposed to brewstand........free
two digital stick thermometers....................................$25
corona mill...............................................................$32
tubing for mash tuns..................................................$5

Total.....................................................................$150


HPIM0599.jpg
 
You can go AG for fairly cheap. You can spend bazillions on a brew rig. At the risk of fueling the fire that this thread has become, I'll offer you this. Quality is in the brewer, not the equipment. I'll wager money that a good brewer with equipment that he picked up out of the dumpster can brew beer every bit as good as an average brewer with a $6K Sabco system. I'd even go as far as to say that two equally good brewers could turn out an excellent beer using either ghetto or bling set-ups.

My system consists of a couple of keggles, a cooler, and some burners. It's not fancy. The burners get used for other things as well. I make good beer. With my equipment costs and the frequency at which I brew, I'm a long way from breaking even yet. I don't care, it's a hobby.

Any one considering AG brewing.....

Don't let the terminology, equipment, etc... scare you. If you can cook even the simplest stovetop meal you can make AG beer. Don't stress about yeast culturing, water chemistry, mash PH, etc... If you want to hone your process or like the scientific aspect that's cool, but I use tap water, never check the PH, and so far haven't re-used any yeast.

If extract brewing works for you, keep on doing it. I've made some and drank more damn good extract beers.
 
I have been watching this. Interesting.....

I started with a "Beer machine". Had NO CLUE how beer was made. Started reading books and the homebrew digest (in 1993). I realized how beer was really made and went for it. I had made one or two extract batches.

I acquired 2 1/2 kegs and a 1/4. Cut the tops out, made a manifold out of 1/4" copper tubing for the mash tun and away I went. I took a 500,000 Btu Weed burner and built a stand for it. That was in 1993. Gravity is my friend.... No pumps, no puters, just a simple brew system like me. I get lots of compliments on my beer.

I only use the best ingredients, no sugar, whole hops, and always liquid yeast with a big starter (except some experimenting with safeale).

It works for me. I have no idea what I have invested and don't care. I get total satisfaction out of brewing.

Ya get out of it what you put into it!

I have passion for beer. I can't even drink a lot, I am diabetic, but I love to brew.

Cost is no object, not that I am rich, just that I love it. Call my setup ghetto or what ever you want, it works.

I buy bulk grain and hops. I do have a grain mill and I keg because I do NOT like washing and sanitizing bottles.

Sitting here drinking the best oatmeal stout I have ever had......

If you want to try all grain, stop by my place tomorrow, I'll be brewing. I am giving 1/2 of the 10 gallon batch to a friend that has never brewed before. Trying to get him to join the asylum......

As far as 5 gal or 10 gal batches, I have always done 10 because it takes just as long to prepare and clean up for either. Lately I have been wanting more variety, so I may be doing some 5 gal batches.

Up until now I have open fermented in one of the 1/2 kegs. It always worked for me. I just bought a 7 gal conical for cheap ($239). Now I can harvest the yeast and ferment in a closed environment.

So YEAH, go for it Its how beer is REALLY Made.

"one more thing" :) I brewed from 1993 to about 2000, then I moved to a place with a well. I made one batch and it tasted like crap because of my water. Now its about 9 years later. I pulled the stuff out of the garage, bought some grain, hops and yeast. Made my first batch in a LONG time. Wouldn't you know it the brewery worked just as good as when I put it away. DAYM it felt good. This will be my 4 th batch in about 6 weeks. I put the 1/2 and 1/4 kegs in the back of my truck and get the water from the local village. Wish I would have done that years ago.

It was a ***** cleaning the corny kegs that had set for 9 years with a little beer in them.....

brewing 011.JPG

David
 
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