Is AG really that much cheaper then extract?

Material wise, if you buy bulk it is definitely cheaper. My house ale is less than $15.00 including propane. I will be growing my own hops next year and am converting my burner to natural gas so I figure my house ale will get to under $12.00 within a year.

If my time is worth even minimum wage - all grain is much more expensive.

If my hobby is worth the price of dinner and a movie on a per hour basis - all grain is dirt cheap.

I love all grain and the process!!

KopyKat said:

If my time is worth even minimum wage - all grain is much more expensive.

If my hobby is worth the price of dinner and a movie on a per hour basis - all grain is dirt cheap.

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well said..

I feel like that cost aren't as high as people think or say. Most new beer beginner kits come with buckets and carboys. I moved into all grain with just $30, I just needed the parts for my cooler. Most people already have coolers lying around their house anyway. Ask a friend with a family it's most likely they have more than one cooler in their garage to spare. Just pay him with beer!!!

I buy bulk grain in a group buy so for me it is certainly cheaper, however I would say making my yeast bank was a bigger cost savings. Buying liq yeast at $7-8 each was a killer...

BIAB. Brew in a bag.

If you have the equipment for extract brewing (kettle, heat source) you have everything you need for all-grain.You just need the bag. Maybe a thermometer.
No fancy mash tun? Wrap your kettle in towels and a sleeping bag.
No fancy wort chiller? Water bath with ice, gets it right down.

The price of the bag and thermometer might well be offset by the amount of money you save on your first batch alone.

Billybob7 said:

BIAB. Brew in a bag.

If you have the equipment for extract brewing (kettle, heat source) you have everything you need for all-grain.You just need the bag. Maybe a thermometer.
No fancy mash tun? Wrap your kettle in towels and a sleeping bag.
No fancy wort chiller? Water bath with ice, gets it right down.

The price of the bag and thermometer might well be offset by the amount of money you save on your first batch alone.

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That's not necessarily true. It will all depend on the equipment you are using for extract. Most extract brewers use 5 gal kettles, and that is definitely not big enough for AG batches. You generally will be boiling 6-7 gallons of wort for a batch, not the 3.5 or whatever you use in extract. You can pick one a 10 gal pot at a restaurant supply store for under $80.
Then I would HIGHLY recommend getting a mash tun. Look up online/youTube for videos on converting a cooler to a tun using a braided hose (toilet/sink supply line). That whole process can be done for under $100 easily. Those are the only essential pieces of equipment you would need to start AG.
All in all, AG is WAY cheaper than extract. A $45 extract kit can cost you as little as $25 for AG. And It will yield you a much better product. The initial cost of the extra equipment will easily pay for itself in a handful of batches, and you can actually consider yourself a 'real' brewer... Or at least closer to it.
Gordon Strong said it best... "extract brewing is no more than brewing than heating up a microwave dinner is cooking."

It also depends on your approach. I had to ditch most all my equipment when we moved (shipping heavyweights nearly 3k miles when you won't have even have room for it sucks) but put together a cheap setup for very little.

I use electric burners and I can run a stovetop element for significantly under $0.50/hour and that's being extremely forgiving. I think last time I actually cared enough to look it costs me 34 cents/hour on high (I think most people grossly overestimate how much electricity costs in this area but it is unfortunately a little slower). I had an old crusher that turned out not to work so I picked up a cheap corona knockoff for ~$20/shipped from amazon, converted an old Ice Cube cooler someone gave me for basically nothing (I helped them with an electrical issue they were having), $6.97 for a Boiler Drain from Lowe's with a PEX fitting (fit perfect through the bulkhead with only a single hose washer and no leaks), and an old restaurant style pan (for my false bottom $2/yardsale) which took a double ended PEX fitting ($1), several drill bits ($3 for 4) since I went really small, and a hacksaw blade (bummed) to doctor up like I wanted. So about $35 bucks with tax and the time involved which was *MOSTLY* fun albeit not entirely.

It seems like I could have been competitive with DME without too much issue but I would have had to deal with DME which I personally loathe. There are unfortunately no LHBS around my area at this time although I could probably find one just over the state line into GA if I went searching at about 2 hours traveled. If I can find bulk grains for cheap that way there will be no comparison. As for the grinding grains with a handle crank, stirring mash, etc... My kid absolutely loves doing both so I get nearly free labor out of the deal (I'd feel bad if I didn't at least buy her some candy or donuts for her effort). The problem, of course, is you ultimately won't stop there. As has been stated repetitively, you have such great flexibility when you go AG that you find yourself pushing for that extra couple percent (I used to be in the 80s, early 90s usually, now I'm in the mid to high 70s ). You end up buying a BC @$115 (or some other such mill such as the 3 roller Monster Mash I want just for the namebrand ), perhaps a better mash tun layout which I really don't believe is necessary, a larger pot (how could this possibly hurt?!??), and better fancy paddle cause we all need to waste some money on something... etc etc etc.

The reality though as far as I'm concerned is that alternative hobbies (golf, shooting, moviegoing, etc) would end up costing me more in the long run with less to show for my money. And keep in mind when you need help around the house fixing a drain or a roof or other such things you find people a lot more eager to come over when there is free beer to be drank while working on it that you get all kinds of free labor out of the deal. Sweat equity might suck but it's incredibly easy to overlook all of the value you reap from it sometimes.

And with that I'm going to force myself to go be productive or something. Stupid propensity to procrastinate...

Btw...

@Moody: I make terrific things/food in the microwave though that aren't just heated crap. No crab legs for Gordon Strong!

drunkatuw said:

Most of my 10 gal batches cost around $25:

My last batch was BierMuncher's Cream of 3 Crops:
12 lb base malt x $0.80 ~ $10
4 lb flaked corn = $4
1 lb flaked rice = $1
2 oz hops ~ $4
s-05 yeast x2 = $4
Total = $23, under $12 per 5 gal batch.

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Where do you get S05 for $2 per packet?

kehaar said:

Where do you get S05 for $2 per packet?

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US-05 is $2 at my HBS

the only "special" equipment i use for AG is a large fruit strainging back. I use a modified BIAB technique and get 83% efficiency. i brewed an oktoberfest for $20. And Cream of Three Crops for $15. You dont have to have a propane burner, or a cooler MLT for AG all i need is a 6 gallon pot, a bag, and a bucket. Don't get me wrong i would love to have a HERMS thhree tiered system and im super jealous, but i just don't have the money for it. My point is, yea AG is that much cheaper. Am i going to get carried away when I'm out of school and spend like $1500 on a setup, probably. But for now moving to AG literally cost me $6 and an extract wheat kit for 1.045 beer was $28. My IIPA cost me $25 and i have more control of my process. So yea it is that much cheaper, it does produce better beer if the process is mastered, and yes i would recommend itto anyone. I do still do extract for that quik brewday however. Go AG and you can spend however much you want, I will gauruntee you wont regret it. If you do, Ill buy your equipment from you for half price, so what do you have to lose!!!

I lowered my costs pretty significantly when I went AG.

My biggest savings came when I stocked up on ingredients. I avoided last minute trips to the LHBS, or shipping costs that can double the cost of an ingredient.

I always have plenty of ingredients on hand. I can brew just about any beer at any time. I have to plan a little if I use liquid yeast. If I'm last minute I'll use dry yeast.

For me grain stores better than extract, especially if it's whole kernal.

I honestly don't stress too much about the cost. Making beer is cheaper and all around better than buying beer. I can make beer for less than I can buy bottled water by the pint.

About $18 per 5 gall batch all grain from $26 extract for me (for a ~ 1.05x gravity brew). But now I need a grain mill, so we'll call it even for the next 15 batches or so!

MoodyCopperpot said:

That's not necessarily true. It will all depend on the equipment you are using for extract. Most extract brewers use 5 gal kettles, and that is definitely not big enough for AG batches. You generally will be boiling 6-7 gallons of wort for a batch, not the 3.5 or whatever you use in extract. You can pick one a 10 gal pot at a restaurant supply store for under $80.

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This isn't really true. I made 3 batches in my 5 gallon kettle and they turned out well but I only made 3 gallon batches. I didn't need to boil 6 or 7 gallons.

I did add a larger kettle so I could do 5 gallon batches later on but I learned the techniques with the small batches first.

solbes said:

About $18 per 5 gall batch all grain from $26 extract for me (for a ~ 1.05x gravity brew). But now I need a grain mill, so we'll call it even for the next 15 batches or so!

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I'll go along with your math for the first part but it shouldn't be necessary to go 15 batches to pay off a grain mill unless you are looking for a barley crusher. I bought a cheap knock-off of a Corona mill for about $20 and I'd say that it would pay off in 3 batches. With brew in a bag you don't need the grain crushed to preserve the hulls, you don't have a strainer in a mash tun that will give you a stuck sparge. If your wort quits coming out of the bag, you just squeeze a little harder.

Yeah, good point. I am using BIAB, but figured I will be doing homebrew for another 30 years +, so I would just jump straight to a BC. Do you have a certain model Corona that you could recommend? It looks like there are some quality ones out there, and then some that last for 2 batches before falling apart. Hard to know what's what.

Had to look up where Solway was at. Looks like just west of Bemidji. Hope to head up to the area next weekend for one last fishing trip. Been out at all?

In Canada at my LHBS extract costs about $5/lb. Grain costs like $1/lb for base malts, $2/lb for specialty malts.

Needless to say I have not met a single extract brewer in the city...