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Old 08-14-2012, 12:25 AM   #21
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After reading through this thread, twice, I have begun to question my sanity.

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Old 08-14-2012, 12:48 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
As was mentioned, once you toasted the malt, you denatured the enzymes. You can soak it all you want, but it will not be "mashing" since no conversion will be taking place.
Just as Info :

I mashed 0.5 lbs of my home-roasted malt and after sparging it gave me 950 mL with the gravity 1.010 .

Water/Grain ratio : 2 qts/lb

If dark malts have no diastatic power , then what do those numbers in table 9 in the section 12.4.1 of John Palmer's "How To Brew" mean ?!

Hector
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Old 08-14-2012, 01:42 PM   #23
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Quote:
I mashed 0.5 lbs of my home-roasted malt and after sparging it gave me 950 mL with the gravity 1.010
Now try to ferment that out and then take a gravity reading.
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Old 08-14-2012, 01:49 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hector View Post
Just as Info :

I mashed 0.5 lbs of my home-roasted malt and after sparging it gave me 950 mL with the gravity 1.010 .

Water/Grain ratio : 2 qts/lb

If dark malts have no diastatic power , then what do those numbers in table 9 in the section 12.4.1 of John Palmer's "How To Brew" mean ?!

Hector
you're misunderstanding - there is sugar in the malt - true, it's in crystal form. diastatic power is used to convert starch to sugar. You can certainly pull sugar out of your malt - but it's not through enzymatic reaction - it's simply extracting sugars that are already converted.
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Old 08-14-2012, 01:55 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hector View Post
Just as Info :

I mashed 0.5 lbs of my home-roasted malt and after sparging it gave me 950 mL with the gravity 1.010 .

Water/Grain ratio : 2 qts/lb

If dark malts have no diastatic power , then what do those numbers in table 9 in the section 12.4.1 of John Palmer's "How To Brew" mean ?!

Hector
Crystal malts and chocolate malt do not have diastatic power, that is, they cannot convert any starches they may have to sugar. However, the grain is made so that any sugars there are crystalized. So you can steep it and get a few gravity points.

Say you make some tea with black tea. You get some water, and steep the tea in the water. You get some tea out of it. The same is true with chocolate malt, roasted barley, crystal malt, etc. You do get color and flavor, and a few gravity points from the malt. That is why you use it. That doesn't mean it was "mashed", as it has no power to convert. It was steeped.

In order to "mash" the grain, you must use a base malt that DOES have diastatic power. There is no other way. You can soak crystal malt all day long, and won't get more out of it than if you soaked it for 20 minutes. Same with chocolate malt, roasted barley, etc.

From the bottom under the chart that you quoted, Palmer says this:
"Steeping data is experimental and was obtained by steeping 1 lb. in 1 gal at 160°F for 30 minutes. All malts were crushed in a 2 roller mill at the same setting."

If you would have steeped your chocolate malt (which you did), you would get the same PPG. There is no advantage to separating your grains, as you got exactly the same gravity points as if you would have steeped them together.
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Old 08-14-2012, 01:58 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hector View Post
Just as Info :

I mashed 0.5 lbs of my home-roasted malt and after sparging it gave me 950 mL with the gravity 1.010 .

Water/Grain ratio : 2 qts/lb

If dark malts have no diastatic power , then what do those numbers in table 9 in the section 12.4.1 of John Palmer's "How To Brew" mean ?!

Hector
Now add .5 lb flaked oats to your .5lb roasted malt. You will still have the same gravity but it will be quite cloudy due to the soluble starch that will be unconverted.

Then, add .5lb crushed malt to the mixture. I bet your gravity jumps to 1.035 or more as the soluble starch is converted to sugar.
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Old 08-14-2012, 02:00 PM   #27
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Now add .5 lb flaked oats to your .5lb roasted malt. You will still have the same gravity but it will be quite cloudy due to the soluble starch that will be unconverted.

Then, add .5lb crushed malt to the mixture. I bet your gravity jumps to 1.035 or more as the soluble starch is converted to sugar.
Ah, much less wordy that my explanation and a better one besides!
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Old 08-14-2012, 04:36 PM   #28
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Even chocolate malt has diastatic power .
I don't think so. Can you provide some examples?
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:06 PM   #29
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To Hector:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
...If you would have steeped your chocolate malt (which you did), you would get the same PPG...
I think what Yooper is saying here is that your process of placing the chocolate malt in your MLT, and going thru the motions of a typical mash, is giving you the same result as simply steeping the grains.
I would reccomend grabbing an extra pound of chocolate malt, mash half as you just described, and steep the other half as Yooper describes, then compare the hydro readings between the two. If the mashed wort has a higher SG than the steeped, you were right. Post your results and others will replicate the experiment. If they are the same, Yooper is right, and your process of mashing the chocolate malt is just an overly complicated steep. If the steeped wort is higher then I dunno what the hell happened, but you'd be losing some sugar in your process.

To Everyone Else:
But as far as steeping or mashing each of the grains seperately, I think Hector just wants to know exactly where each gravity point came from.
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