57% Efficiency, AGAIN!

Dionysos911 · 10-12-2009, 06:27 PM

So for the 3rd AG session in a row (and in total) I have been getting about 57% efficiency. I would really like to improve this. Here is my process..

I get my grains from the brew store and crush twice. 1st crush I do at their recommended setting and then I do a 2nd crush a bit finer.

This last time I doh'd in at 167 water hitting a temp of 154 mashing at 1.25 water/grain ratio. (this was 4.5 gallons of water). I stirred a few times over an hour and only lost 1degree. (Using 10 gallon igloo)

I drained into the boiler while heating up 2 gallons of water to 190. I dumped that in and got the grain bed to about 164. Stirred then drained after it set for 10 min. Then I dumped in 2 more gallons at 190 got my grain bed to about 170. Stirred then drained after 10 min. Of course caught first runnings and such.

Boiled for 60min and this time hit my target batch size of 5.25 gallons.

Any suggestions? Am I missing a step here?

**TexLaw** · 10-12-2009, 06:38 PM

It's hard to say. It could be the crush, but it sounds like you have that covered. It could be your mash chemistry, but you have no details about that. Are you checking for conversion before you mash out and sparge?

Try skipping the mash out on the batch sparge. 164 is lower than I like my mash out, anyhow. Just drain the first runnings and add the first half of the sparge water (at a higher temperature to try and get your bed up to 170F on the first go-round).

Also, are you measuring the gravity of your runnings as they come out of the MLT? It's hard to know where your problem lies, if you don't. If your gravity is too low on your first runnings, you most likely have a problem with your mash chemistry. If your final runnings are high, then you have a problem with your sparge technique.

TL

chuggs · 10-12-2009, 06:44 PM

What kind of water are you using? Are you adding any chemicals to the water?

I think your pH must be off...

I get pretty good efficiency...I use activated charcoal filtered tap water...here in FL. I add just a bit of gypsum, and a bit of Lactic acid to the water. Minerals in the water help buffer the pH in the mash. If you're using some really hard water...your pH may be too high. You'll benefit greatly from a bit of Lactic Acid in the water. Checking the pH with test strips during the mash... and perhaps adding an acid rest to your mash schedule.

mkling · 10-12-2009, 06:59 PM

By my calculations, you were using ~14.4 lbs of grain. (Is that right? I based it on you water ratio & 18 quarts of mash water.) For that much grain, two 2 gallon batch sparges seem too small. I almost think you'd be better off doing one larger sparge. 2 gallons in 14.4 lbs of grain doesn't seem like it would loosen up the sugars from the grain enough.

Dionysos911 · 10-12-2009, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkling

By my calculations, you were using ~14.4 lbs of grain. (Is that right? I based it on you water ratio & 18 quarts of mash water.) For that much grain, two 2 gallon batch sparges seem too small. I almost think you'd be better off doing one larger sparge. 2 gallons in 14.4 lbs of grain doesn't seem like it would loosen up the sugars from the grain enough.

That is what I did last weekend.. Single sparge with 4 gallons of water. Thats why I tried the double sparge to see if it made a difference.

Quote:

Also, are you measuring the gravity of your runnings as they come out of the MLT? It's hard to know where your problem lies, if you don't. If your gravity is too low on your first runnings, you most likely have a problem with your mash chemistry. If your final runnings are high, then you have a problem with your sparge technique.

I have only been measuring gravity at pitch.

Quote:

What kind of water are you using? Are you adding any chemicals to the water?

I just use straight Seattle tap water which I have heard is really good as is.

maho · 10-12-2009, 07:09 PM

Some of the obvious things you can check first:

Check your thermometer. I have had thermometers that have been 10 degrees off.
Check w. ice water (~32F) and boiling water (~212F)

Check your Gravity reading. Basically you check with pure water and a sugar solution. If you use 1qt and about 3.5oz of DME you get app. 1040.

Once you have determined if your measurements are accurate you can start debugging the process.

This hits close to home, as I also have been battling efficiency issues (started at 55%). I ended up buying a Barley crusher, using PH5.2 and stirring for 5-10 between sparge batches.
Now I am consistently at 75%, which to me is perfect.

FreakinA · 10-12-2009, 07:17 PM

+1 for thermometer calibration.

chuggs · 10-12-2009, 07:22 PM

If the thermometer is off...wouldn't he get purple in his iodine test at the end of the mash?

You are doing an iodine test, aren't you?

Thermometer check sounds like very good advice...

**TexLaw** · 10-12-2009, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreakinA

+1 for thermometer calibration.

+2 on that, as well. I ran into a bum thermometer once, myself.

The quickest way to determine where your problem is will be to measure the gravity of your runnings or, at least, do an iodine test to see if you are converting. Shoot, just tasting the mash tun liquor (i.e., is it sweet and sticky, or is it more starchy) will tell you something.

TL

**Saccharomyces** · 10-12-2009, 07:30 PM

+1,000,000,000,000,000,000 on the thermometer. Thermometers are garbage unless you spring $100 for a lab grade thermometer you MUST calibrate it and re-check it nearly every time you use it.

I had no end of problems until I bought a Thermoworks thermometer they are quality, I can't recommend them enough.

Other thing is pH. You will not get good yield if your pH is off so if you don't want to mess with the water chemistry get some pH 5.2 stabilizer and use it.