The Great Bottle Opener Giveaway

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > 2qt./LB Mash...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-12-2009, 05:18 PM   #11
Kaiser
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Kaiser's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pepperell, MA
Posts: 3,904
Liked 114 Times on 71 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

The efficiency gains, if there are any, of a thin mash are a result of a better conversion efficiency. This means that more starches are converted and contribute to the gravity of the wort. Now that only works if there are more starches available for conversion. If you are already getting into the upper 80s or lower 90s with your efficiency than it is safe to assume that your conversion efficiency is pretty close to 100% and not much gain can be achieved.

The most can be gained from this if your efficiency is in the 60s and 70s and the reason for that low efficiency is that you get less starches converted in the mash. It seems that a thinner mash makes extracting of these starches easier. One fact is that increase sugar concentrations and less available free water increase the gelatinization temp of the starch.

And yes, a thinner mash also means less sparge water. I actually see this as a benefit as subsequent runnings from the mash will always have lower quality than the first wort. As to what extend that actually makes a precievable difference is likely to depend on the actual process and the recipe.

Kai
Kaiser is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-12-2009, 05:39 PM   #12
balto charlie
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
balto charlie's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Md
Posts: 819
Liked 9 Times on 7 Posts

Default

We were just discussing this a week or 2 ago. I posted a comment referring to the end of a 5 gallon mlt. I was told that this was not the case but I never quite understood being able to use a 5 gallon cooler with a 1.060 beer and the 2qts/LB.
Currently: I max out the 5G cooler w/ 12 lbs of grain and 15Qts of water using the 1.25qts/grain lb when brewing a 1.060 beer.
BUT: If I were to use 2 Qts.water / lb grain then I would max out cooler at 8 lbs of grain w/ a 1.040 beer. Correct??
This method only works for lighter beers using a 5 G MLT??????? Am I right. I really want to try this method since I am in the 70% effeciency group. Thanks

__________________
Drinking Firestone Wookey Black IPA clone, Bock, Oktoberfest, Bock, Red APA
Conditioning: Firestone Wookey Black IPA clone, Oktoberfest, Bock, Red APA
Secondary
Primary
On DeckIPA, Pale ale, ESB
balto charlie is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-13-2009, 06:18 PM   #13
desertbronze
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 385
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Balto - you are correct that a larger mash tun is needed for this situation. I use a 10 gallon tun for 5 to 8 gallon brews and a 17.5 gallon tun for bigger brews.

__________________
"You can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning."

Kegged - Where's Waldo Amber Ale
Dry peppering - Jalapeno Wheat
On the fruit - Currant Wheat and Huckleberry Wheat

Primary - FUBAR Weizenbock and Accidental Dunkelweizen

Hops - Centennial, Nugget, Mt. Hood, Cascade, Willamette, Magnum, Chinook
desertbronze is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-13-2009, 08:52 PM   #14
Medo
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: North Pole Alaska
Posts: 166
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts

Default

Ahoy hoy,
Ah yes, the thin mash. Works like a charm for me. If I have 15 lbs of grain, I use 30 qts of water. Yup, sounds like alot, until you take in how much of that stays in the grain after the drain. Wow Im a poet, and dont know it
7.5 gallons usually gives me about 5 gallons from the mash, then Ill get about 1.5 gallons from the 2 or so I use to sparge, so I end up with 7-7.5 gallons of wort to boil. I use a bit less in the winter indoors as my on stove boiling is not as good as my propane summer boils, and ill come up with too much juice. So, I aim at 6-6.5 for a 60 minute indoor boil. Now, remember, this is in interior Alaska, and your milage may vary. Bottom line it took alot of experimenting with too much, and not enough, to find just right
Yo Pol, its almost 10 above today, im in a t shirt running round!
To all I bid a great day!

__________________

Sean Thornton (John Wayne) "I'll have one of those black beers."
Pat Cohan (Harry Tyler) the publican "Ah, the porter. Yes sir."
From 'The Quiet Man' 1952

"Tell me, Alvis - for all wights' fate
I deem that, dwarf, thou knowest -
how the beer is hight which is brewed by men,
in all the worlds so wide?"

- The Lay of Alvis

Visit my beer blog at http://homebrew.medofernandez.com

Medo is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-13-2009, 09:10 PM   #15
McKBrew
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
McKBrew's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hayden, Idaho
Posts: 8,292
Liked 30 Times on 27 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

Since I'll probably brew at least another batch or two before I get my Barley Crusher, I'll try 2qt/# on my next batch and see what happens. I consistently average 65-70% efficiency no matter what so any thing a few percent above 70 should confirm it for me.

__________________

Make Beer, Not War.

McKBrew is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-13-2009, 09:39 PM   #16
The Pol
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,616
Liked 51 Times on 48 Posts

Default

Cool, let us know what happens... I will post my results as well

__________________
The Pol is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-13-2009, 11:12 PM   #17
Dude
Will work for beer
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Dude's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Knob Noster, Missouri
Posts: 8,843
Liked 35 Times on 26 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

It seems to me that you are jumping into this with a preconceived notion that even though maybe you are helping conversion (and in effect efficiency), what is the end product?

IMO, you have to consider other factors as well when deciding on the viscosity of your mash.

My point is you need to find a happy medium. Is mashing thicker affecting efficiency to the point of hurting the pocket book? On a homebrewer scale, probably not. However, is mashing this thin making your beer better? I'd say probably not. You have one major drawback going against you in this case, because the thin mash will inevitably dry out your beer (simply: denatured enzymes = high concentration of fermentable wort). There ARE ways to counteract this with a balance of mash thickness and temperature, but I think in general you need to consider the quality of the finished product over the advantage of increased efficiency (which seems is the motivation for a thin mash, and this thread).

Of course, if you step mash or decoct then this theory goes out the window because it is a whole new ball of wax as far as enzymes go.

All I ask--is your beer better when all is said and done? Is it worth it in the end?

__________________
On Tap: Lake Walk Pale Ale -- Eternity (Raspberry Stout) -- Nutrocker -- Donnybrook Dark
Primary: Lake Walk Pale Ale
Secondary: Summit IPA
Up Next: Smoked Porter -- Pub Ale -- Watermelon Wheat
Planning:
Gone But Not Forgotten:

www.IronOrrBrewery.com
Dude is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-13-2009, 11:53 PM   #18
The Pol
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,616
Liked 51 Times on 48 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude View Post
It seems to me that you are jumping into this with a preconceived notion that even though maybe you are helping conversion (and in effect efficiency), what is the end product?

IMO, you have to consider other factors as well when deciding on the viscosity of your mash.

My point is you need to find a happy medium. Is mashing thicker affecting efficiency to the point of hurting the pocket book? On a homebrewer scale, probably not. However, is mashing this thin making your beer better? I'd say probably not. You have one major drawback going against you in this case, because the thin mash will inevitably dry out your beer (simply: denatured enzymes = high concentration of fermentable wort). There ARE ways to counteract this with a balance of mash thickness and temperature, but I think in general you need to consider the quality of the finished product over the advantage of increased efficiency (which seems is the motivation for a thin mash, and this thread).

Of course, if you step mash or decoct then this theory goes out the window because it is a whole new ball of wax as far as enzymes go.

All I ask--is your beer better when all is said and done? Is it worth it in the end?
I think you misunderstood the whole thread. The OP was a question, not a statement of truth or belief. There are no preconcieved notions... ummm. I dont know what it will do, if anything. It is an experiment based on some information from Basic Brewing Radio... where they said that they experienced a rise in efficiency and that they had not seen any increase in the attenuation of the wort at the same time.

Brewing doesnt hurt my pocket book, nor would a pound of grain... otherwise I would not have just put a $400 upgrade into my system That is what, 400lbs of pale? Could've solved my cash flow problem right there if I needed to!

No no... I think you misunderstood. This is an experiment, that is all that it is. The OP was a question based on some information that I had heard in a podcast... so I am testing it. Nothing nearly as serious as what you are making out to be Dude.

If my beer turns out like crap, I will be sure to post the results of my test to that end.
__________________

Last edited by The Pol; 01-13-2009 at 11:57 PM.
The Pol is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-14-2009, 12:02 AM   #19
The Pol
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,616
Liked 51 Times on 48 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Medo View Post
Ahoy hoy,
Ah yes, the thin mash. Works like a charm for me. If I have 15 lbs of grain, I use 30 qts of water. Yup, sounds like alot, until you take in how much of that stays in the grain after the drain. Wow Im a poet, and dont know it
7.5 gallons usually gives me about 5 gallons from the mash, then Ill get about 1.5 gallons from the 2 or so I use to sparge, so I end up with 7-7.5 gallons of wort to boil. I use a bit less in the winter indoors as my on stove boiling is not as good as my propane summer boils, and ill come up with too much juice. So, I aim at 6-6.5 for a 60 minute indoor boil. Now, remember, this is in interior Alaska, and your milage may vary. Bottom line it took alot of experimenting with too much, and not enough, to find just right
Yo Pol, its almost 10 above today, im in a t shirt running round!
To all I bid a great day!
Medo, buddy... first SS for the HERMS coil, and now a t-shirt? YOU NEED HELP!
__________________
The Pol is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-14-2009, 12:11 AM   #20
chase
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
chase's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Urbana, IL
Posts: 370
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Do you have the ability to check the pH of your mash, Pol?

I'd be interested in seeing how much the pH rises at 2qt/lb.

__________________

1º #1: RIS
1º #2: -
2º #1: Flanders Red (2009)
2º #2: Lambic (2009)
2º #3: Flanders Red (2010)
2º #4: Lambic (2010)
2º #5: Old Ale

chase is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Keeping Mash temp during 90min Mash in 5gal Cooler MLT KYB All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 13 01-30-2013 04:57 AM
Noob Mash/sparge questions (partial mash) billpa Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 7 08-03-2011 06:41 PM
Mash in Keggle - False Bottom vs. amount of mash water Griffsta All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 2 03-24-2009 01:09 PM
partial mash.OG,break material,mash tun efficiancy questions dzlater All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 9 07-07-2008 12:15 AM
How much mash can a mash tun mash? Need Help for Tomorrow's Brew! ryan_pants Equipment/Sanitation 3 02-11-2007 01:44 AM