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05-14-2011, 12:10 PM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 1,073
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I do BIAB. I used to get about 70% efficiency. Now I get 85-93% efficiency.
I do 2 or 3 batch sparges (I used to do one). I heat the water with the first sparge raising the grain to 168 for mash-out. IMHO if you are not concerned with mashing-out (which will effectively end enzymatic activity), the actual temperature does not matter as long as you keep it below 170 (to avoid astringency). But I do think it is important to keep the sparges hot. For my last batch I did not heat my third sparge and hardly heated my second (timing issues on brew day) and my efficiency took a hit.
FWIW I never squeeze. My thought is that if it does not come out with the sparge water, it probably shouldn't be in my beer.
Grain crush absolutely makes a difference. I have relied mainly on NB but also AHS, Midwest Supply and LHBS crushes and I have not had issues (at least so far). You will absolutely get better efficiency with better crush but you also begin to get draff in the wort because of the fine grind. Of course this would also depend on the fineness of your bag.
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05-14-2011, 04:23 PM
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#22
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Thirsty Zymurgist...
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Leesburg, Virginia
Posts: 1,574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EoinMag
it is a no sparge method..
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It can be a no sparge method, but it can also be sparged. Everyone's got their own preferences.
__________________
Primary: Apfelwein 2.04, Peach Pyment 2.05, Chocolate Stout 2.20
Secondary: Douglah Capsicumel 10.29, Chocolate Mead 10.29, Bochet Mead 11.12, Cranberry Mead 11.24
Bottle Conditioning: Spiced Mead 5.30, Peach Mango Mead 7.09
On Tap: Raspberry Wheat 01.08, Smoked Porter 01.16, SB46 Pale Ale 2.05, Citra IPA 03.04, English Barleywine 11.12
In Bottles: Spiced Cherry Dubbel 7.17
Gallons in 2012: 36
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05-14-2011, 04:26 PM
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#23
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Thirsty Zymurgist...
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Leesburg, Virginia
Posts: 1,574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kapbrew13
So raising temp to 170 will help my 68% efficiency? Good to know.
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Raising it at the end for a few minutes will help to thin the sugars out that are still hanging around the grain. Only do it at the end, and only do it for ten minutes. It will end enzymatic activity, and doing it for a longer period of time could lead to astringency.
__________________
Primary: Apfelwein 2.04, Peach Pyment 2.05, Chocolate Stout 2.20
Secondary: Douglah Capsicumel 10.29, Chocolate Mead 10.29, Bochet Mead 11.12, Cranberry Mead 11.24
Bottle Conditioning: Spiced Mead 5.30, Peach Mango Mead 7.09
On Tap: Raspberry Wheat 01.08, Smoked Porter 01.16, SB46 Pale Ale 2.05, Citra IPA 03.04, English Barleywine 11.12
In Bottles: Spiced Cherry Dubbel 7.17
Gallons in 2012: 36
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05-14-2011, 10:12 PM
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#24
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Easy Is No Fun...
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: somerset, NJ
Posts: 1,044
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by usfmikeb
Raising it at the end for a few minutes will help to thin the sugars out that are still hanging around the grain. Only do it at the end, and only do it for ten minutes. It will end enzymatic activity, and doing it for a longer period of time could lead to astringency.
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Thanks.
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05-15-2011, 01:14 AM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElDuderino
I have been getting 80+ efficiency on the last five or so batches I've done and I attribute it to raising the wort temp up to 170, then stirring the grain really well and letting it sit for a couple of minutes. I then pull it up and let it hang and drain.
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+10
A couple things I started doing after recommendations from the forums that really ramped up my efficiency:
1) Fine crush. You can really pulverize the grain for BIAB. I double mill mine on a pretty fine setting, getting a lot of flour in the crush. Makes a cloudy wort, but it always clears in the fermenter.
2) Sparge and mash out. If you have another kettle, use it to sparge and pump up the temp to 170 for a mash out (I get it up to about 175 and then drop the bag in, stir well, dunk a bit like a tea bag; I go about 5-10 minutes in the second kettle). Then, pull it up and let it hang to drain. I pour the sparged wort into the kettle and start the boil while I let the bag drain back into the kettle I used to sparge with (I put the bag in the little steamer pot that came with my turkey fryer kit for this, and let it drain through the steamer into the kettle). I first started doing this when I went to full boils while doing extract, and found that it worked so well I continued doing it when I went to BIAB (only I did it opposite with steeping grains for extract brewing - steeped in the little kettle and sparged in the big kettle).
In addition to (or alternatively), you can do a secondary sparge where you pour water over the grains in the bag. I've done this, but found it was not worth the effort. My efficiency didn't increase, though I could see it being a bit better than just the dunk method I use. The larger steam basket to hold the bag would be very useful for this.
With this, I get efficiencies in the mid to upper 80's consistently. 
__________________
On Deck: DH 90 Minute IPA, Wee Heavy, APA, RIS, Session Stout
Primary: Jamil's Evil Twin, Milk Stout, Belgian Blonde, #9
Secondary: Empty!
Bottled: ESB, Fraoch, Witbier, IPA, Irish Red, Hefeweizen, Pepper Porter, BBQ Brown, Tripel, Woody Wee Heavy
Kegged:CDA, Peach Cider
"Beer, it's whats for dinner!"
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05-15-2011, 07:39 AM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Dublin, Ireland.
Posts: 1,022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usfmikeb
It can be a no sparge method, but it can also be sparged. Everyone's got their own preferences.
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http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=194
I'll let you read someone elses definition, they say it's not no sparge as the liquid is constantly in contact with the grist.
If you're sparging in the traditional sense you're doing a variant of pure BIAB.
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05-15-2011, 12:42 PM
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#27
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Thirsty Zymurgist...
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Leesburg, Virginia
Posts: 1,574
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As I said, the method is open to different preferences. Not sparging after mash out is choosing to leave sugars behind with the grain. I only sparge if I'm short of where I wanted to be from an efficiency standpoint.
__________________
Primary: Apfelwein 2.04, Peach Pyment 2.05, Chocolate Stout 2.20
Secondary: Douglah Capsicumel 10.29, Chocolate Mead 10.29, Bochet Mead 11.12, Cranberry Mead 11.24
Bottle Conditioning: Spiced Mead 5.30, Peach Mango Mead 7.09
On Tap: Raspberry Wheat 01.08, Smoked Porter 01.16, SB46 Pale Ale 2.05, Citra IPA 03.04, English Barleywine 11.12
In Bottles: Spiced Cherry Dubbel 7.17
Gallons in 2012: 36
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05-15-2011, 04:30 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kingston, GA
Posts: 872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EoinMag
http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=194
I'll let you read someone elses definition, they say it's not no sparge as the liquid is constantly in contact with the grist.
If you're sparging in the traditional sense you're doing a variant of pure BIAB.
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biabrewer.info won't even argue that dunk sparging isn't biab. that would be like saying making tea with tea bags isn't really making tea since it wasn't done with loose tea. the beauty of brewing is there are almost as many ways to get from grain to glass as there are beer styles. when batch sparging got started, it was looked down upon by those that had been brewing for years because it wasn't the same as they had been taught (fly sparging). the brewing process is constantly evolving and changing to what ever works best for each brewer. so instead of getting defensive of how you do BIAB (I do full volume as well) just accept that others do it different and still make great beer.
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05-16-2011, 04:14 AM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysticmead
biabrewer.info won't even argue that dunk sparging isn't biab. that would be like saying making tea with tea bags isn't really making tea since it wasn't done with loose tea. the beauty of brewing is there are almost as many ways to get from grain to glass as there are beer styles. when batch sparging got started, it was looked down upon by those that had been brewing for years because it wasn't the same as they had been taught (fly sparging). the brewing process is constantly evolving and changing to what ever works best for each brewer. so instead of getting defensive of how you do BIAB (I do full volume as well) just accept that others do it different and still make great beer.
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+100
Experimentation is what leads to innovation! 
__________________
On Deck: DH 90 Minute IPA, Wee Heavy, APA, RIS, Session Stout
Primary: Jamil's Evil Twin, Milk Stout, Belgian Blonde, #9
Secondary: Empty!
Bottled: ESB, Fraoch, Witbier, IPA, Irish Red, Hefeweizen, Pepper Porter, BBQ Brown, Tripel, Woody Wee Heavy
Kegged:CDA, Peach Cider
"Beer, it's whats for dinner!"
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05-16-2011, 04:57 AM
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#30
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 40
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To up all grain/BiaB efficiency:
+1 fine crush/double mill. In my mind this is the single biggest and most easily overlooked variable for newer all-grain brewers- biab or no. At least, it was for me.
+1 mash out to 170 to thin things out. Likely to help and unlikely to hurt.
+1 squeeze that grain bag! I haven't brewed any roasty beers on my biab setup, but none of my ambers, ipas, or light lagers have a hint of astringency and I get every drop out of that grain that I can manage. Hop bag, too.
+? dunk/batch sparge. Seems likely to up your efficiency, but the biggest appeal of BiaB to me is simplicity and minimal equipment. I'd try the other tips to up efficiency before reintroducing a sparge, if it were me. Of course, follow your own heart 
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