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Old 05-17-2012, 08:51 PM   #1
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Default 2 session partygyle

I'm planning on brewing a 5 gal no sparge batch similar to a Warsteiner Dunkel, but with ale yeast instead of lager. It's not a big beer. I'm predicting an OG of 1.047. I'd like to toss in some Maris Otter after that and make a 5 gal Amber(ish) with second runnings that comes in at more or less the same OG. My question is; How much Maris Otter should I put in the second mash to get back up to around 1.047 more or less.

Here's the grain bill on the first run (dunkel);
7 lbs American 2-row
1.5 lbs American Vienna
.5 lbs American Black Patent
2 lbs Instant Corn Grits

It's my first partygyle. I'm figuring on 75% efficiency on the first run with a 2 hour mash. Being a no sparge batch, my mash is very thin at 2.96 qt/lb. Is 75% efficiency realistic for a no sparge that thin? I usually hit 79-80% when I batch sparge...

Thanks for any advice!

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Old 05-18-2012, 02:01 AM   #2
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Ok, so for a parti gyle, you can expect the first runnings to carry 2/3 of the potential gravity available at your normal efficiency. The second runnings will carry 1/3 of that.

So if you have 11 pounds of grain, averaging 75% efficiency, and averaging 35 points per pound per gallon, you'll get appx 1.039 on your first runnings, and 1.019 on your second runnings (for 5 gallons).

FWIW, i usually increase the grains to what i would need for 10 gallons of a beer with an OG 1/2 way between what i want between the first runnings and the second runnings. For example, if i want a 1.080 big beer, and a 1.040 small beer, each 5 gallons, i'll go with appx 23 lbs of grain (60gp x 10 gallons / .75 efficiency / 35 pppg).

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Old 05-18-2012, 01:50 PM   #3
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I do get the idea that the second runnings will be a lower gravity. Though I might need to increase the original grain bill to raise the gravity of the first runnings, I'm not sure I explained myself well enough regarding the second runnings.

After my first runnings are collected for batch number one I want to make a second batch with equal gravity as the first runnings by adding some more base malt to the already spent grain. In this case I'm going to add Maris Otter to change up the style a little bit. What I'm wondering is how many pounds of Maris Otter I should add to get my gravity back up on the second runnings? I was thinking of adding maybe 5lbs or so.. Any thoughts?

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Old 05-18-2012, 01:56 PM   #4
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Why not just make 10 gallons of the same OG and then split for the boil? Also you would need to allow time for it to convert.

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Old 05-18-2012, 02:07 PM   #5
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I thought the idea of a partigyle was to avoid two mashes. Go ahead with the 2nd runnings and steep some C-malts (if desired) in the boil kettle. Then and add DME, LME or sugar to the boil to boost your gravity.

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Old 05-19-2012, 12:35 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Poobah58 View Post
I thought the idea of a partigyle was to avoid two mashes. Go ahead with the 2nd runnings and steep some C-malts (if desired) in the boil kettle. Then and add DME, LME or sugar to the boil to boost your gravity.
.. because I want 2 different brews, I like to experiment, I don't like to follow the rules, and I don't have DME or C-malts! Work with me here! haha.. I don't mind 2 mashes, and OK! Fine! It's not a traditional partygyle! It's a partygyle/2 mash type brew day, and I'm ok with that! So.... with that said.... if it was you, how much Maris Otter would you put in the second mash?
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:36 AM   #7
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Why not just make 10 gallons of the same OG and then split for the boil? Also you would need to allow time for it to convert.
Because I don't want 10 gallons of the same beer!
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:12 AM   #8
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Yeah dude, you can cap the mash with more grains to increase the gravity of the 'second runnings.'

what you need to do is figure out what gravity youll be starting with and use some math skilz to figure out what you need. Using my above math, the second runnings of the sparge water will be 1.019. You'll need to add 5.3 pounds of grain to increase that to 1.047 (47gp - 19 gp = 28 gp x 5 gallons / 35 pppg / .75 efficiency). Doing that, you'll end up with one beer @ 1.039, give or take, and the second @ 1.047.

To do what you're talking about, to get two at 1.047, you'll want to start with appx 13.5 pounds of grain. Collect the first runnings, which will carry the majority of the sugars, and should run off at 1.047 or so. Then, add 4.5 lbs of grain, and add a second batch of mash water appx 2-3 degrees above what your second batch's mash temp is. Once you run off that water, the runnings should ALSO be about 1.047, give or take. voila, two beers at 1.047.

Just make sure your mash tun can fit that much water. Your first dough in schedule should include enough water so the first runnings ALONE create appx 6 gallons of wort for a 5 gallon batch, after mash tun dead space is factored in, for a 60 minute boil. The second addition of water should be appx 6 gallons of water, not including deadspace, for another 60 minute boil.

This'll give you two batches @ 1.047, give or take a bit, with the first batch getting the majority of the coloration from any darker malts. The second beer is going to be significantly lighter in color, unless you add in more dark malts.

Note: i've been drinking while doing these calculations. I double checked the math, but use it at your own peril! I used the same math with my last parti-gyle, and it was pretty durn close.. a couple of points off at most.

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Old 05-19-2012, 02:59 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthBay View Post
Yeah dude, you can cap the mash with more grains to increase the gravity of the 'second runnings.'

what you need to do is figure out what gravity youll be starting with and use some math skilz to figure out what you need. Using my above math, the second runnings of the sparge water will be 1.019. You'll need to add 5.3 pounds of grain to increase that to 1.047 (47gp - 19 gp = 28 gp x 5 gallons / 35 pppg / .75 efficiency). Doing that, you'll end up with one beer @ 1.039, give or take, and the second @ 1.047.

To do what you're talking about, to get two at 1.047, you'll want to start with appx 13.5 pounds of grain. Collect the first runnings, which will carry the majority of the sugars, and should run off at 1.047 or so. Then, add 4.5 lbs of grain, and add a second batch of mash water appx 2-3 degrees above what your second batch's mash temp is. Once you run off that water, the runnings should ALSO be about 1.047, give or take. voila, two beers at 1.047.

Just make sure your mash tun can fit that much water. Your first dough in schedule should include enough water so the first runnings ALONE create appx 6 gallons of wort for a 5 gallon batch, after mash tun dead space is factored in, for a 60 minute boil. The second addition of water should be appx 6 gallons of water, not including deadspace, for another 60 minute boil.

This'll give you two batches @ 1.047, give or take a bit, with the first batch getting the majority of the coloration from any darker malts. The second beer is going to be significantly lighter in color, unless you add in more dark malts.

Note: i've been drinking while doing these calculations. I double checked the math, but use it at your own peril! I used the same math with my last parti-gyle, and it was pretty durn close.. a couple of points off at most.
This!!!! That is what I'm talkin' bout! Thanks for the input bro! I was off on my first runnings, but close on the second runnings! I don't mind the second being off in color. My stomach doesn't discriminate based on color! I will up my first grain bill! Thanks again my friend!
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Old 05-19-2012, 03:03 AM   #10
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no problem dude. Glad i could help.

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