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Old 03-09-2009, 06:47 PM   #11
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Here's a few pics before it was cleaned up a bit but it'll give you the idea.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f45/drun...6/index27.html

I'm not using one pot for the BK and HLT...

The HLT and BK are both 25 gallon pots that are exactly the same size. They both have identical site glasses mounted on the side and both pots have markers ticked off on the pots next to the site glasses. I filled one -gallon milk jugs, poured one in, and ticked off the level.... poured in another one... ticked off the level...

so... the measurements are not off... and if they are, they're not off in some weird way that would account for 24 gallons (or whatever the EXACT amount was assuming my milk-gallon method was off somehow) went it... and only 11 of the same measurement came out.


I'm actually not expecting a real solution since again... six of us stood there looking at the thing for about two hours completely freakin' stumped.

Babalu... it was me, Jae, Tredo, Gravel, Frank C. and Rick R.

none of us could figure it out at all.

Just up and dissappeared.

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Old 03-09-2009, 07:02 PM   #12
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There is most definately a real solution to this unless you believe Aliens wanted their share of your first brew on the new rig.

FWIW at best you would only be netting around 20 gallons of wort into the boil kettle so you are looking at a loss of 9 gallons total.

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Old 03-09-2009, 07:13 PM   #13
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Well... I don't honestly think aliens stole it or it vanished into another dimension...

but it's the damndest thing.

We put a GRAND total of 27 gallons of water into the contraption... drained off 3 we didn't need... and then got 11 gallons of wort out with all pots empty.

Absolutely, you figure I lost 4... hell, make it SIX gallons to absorbtion...

I'm still missing 7 whole gallons.

It's making my head hurt.

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Old 03-09-2009, 07:16 PM   #14
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Were you taking hydrometer readings for each sparge?

Why didnt you do a third sparge?

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Old 03-09-2009, 07:19 PM   #15
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I will be staying at a Holiday Inn Express tonight...I will chime in in the morning.

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Old 03-09-2009, 07:30 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Cape Brewing View Post
The HLT and BK are both 25 gallon pots that are exactly the same size. They both have identical site glasses mounted on the side and both pots have markers ticked off on the pots next to the site glasses. I filled one -gallon milk jugs, poured one in, and ticked off the level.... poured in another one... ticked off the level...

so... the measurements are not off... and if they are, they're not off in some weird way that would account for 24 gallons (or whatever the EXACT amount was assuming my milk-gallon method was off somehow) went it... and only 11 of the same measurement came out.
You are assuming they are measuring identically, and you are probably right by the sounds of it. It would still bug the sh*t out of me not to know for sure. I would fill a 5 gal pail with water and dump the same volume into each vessel to see if they are both reading correctly.
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Old 03-09-2009, 07:40 PM   #17
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Impossible... All of the plumbing is controlled through solenoids (nine of them) so the lines shoudl lock down completely but even so... the spout INTO the MT from the BK is above the water line... so there's no way it could pull anything out of the MT.



After my first mash I had 3 in the BK... which remained and 15 in the HLT. I sparged with 8, leaving 7 in the HLT... and was only able to pump 4 into the BK (making a running total of 7). I then batch sparged a second time leaving NOTHING in the HLT... so I sparged with another 7 and only got 4 our of the MT. Pumped 24 in... got 11 out... with the HLY and MT being completely EMPTY when I was done.



Like I was saying... no leaks. it's set up in my garage and I didn't have any drips on the floor, never mind 13 gallons.

And also like I was saying, I'm 99% positive my measurements on the HLT and BK are correct... and if they're not, I pumped in 24 "units" (whether that's 3/4s a gallon, 7/8ths a gallon or a full gallon) and I only got 11 out by using the exact same measuring method.



It's FREAKY!!! It's like the rig ripped a hole into another dimension and 13 gallons dissappeared into thin air. Six or seven guys (three of which had been brewing well over 15 years) stood there totally, completely baffled. For the life of us we can't figure out what happened.

If one or more of your solenoids are not closing completely, or open when you drained that.....if the drain hose is the lowest point, it'll pull from any source on the same circuit, long as there is a path. For example, if your BK is higher or lower, doesen't matter than the MT..........but your drain hose is lower, and through valving that hose has a path to the MT........it'll drain it too.

Just a thought......, but if you discount everything else, and you know your measurements were on.......that's my guess. You can try and repro the problem with just water and see what happens.
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Old 03-09-2009, 07:42 PM   #18
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You are assuming they are measuring identically, and you are probably right by the sounds of it. It would still bug the sh*t out of me not to know for sure. I would fill a 5 gal pail with water and dump the same volume into each vessel to see if they are both reading correctly.
I did dump the same volume into each to make sure the measurements were right. Trust me.. that's not it.

And believe me, it's bugging the ever-luvin sh!t outta of me. It's driving me crazy.
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Old 03-09-2009, 07:53 PM   #19
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If one or more of your solenoids are not closing completely, or open when you drained that.....if the drain hose is the lowest point, it'll pull from any source on the same circuit, long as there is a path. For example, if your BK is higher or lower, doesen't matter than the MT..........but your drain hose is lower, and through valving that hose has a path to the MT........it'll drain it too.

Just a thought......, but if you discount everything else, and you know your measurements were on.......that's my guess. You can try and repro the problem with just water and see what happens.
I don't see how that could be it... if that was the case, my HLT would have clouded up a little bit from my mash leaking into it and it didn't.

My HLT stood perfectly static at 15 gallons during the mashing process and the water never got cloudy. I pumped 9 gallons from the BK into the MT, mashed, and then pumped that same water back into the BK... and only three came out.

ok... so... I lost SIX gallons to absorbtion... I seriously doubt it but I'll assume that for a second.

I then took 8 gallons out of the 15 in the HLT that was still there and still perfectly clear... and pumped them into the MT. My BK level never changed while I was doing that. I'm positive.

After sparging with that, I pumped it into the BK... four came out.

The seven int eh HLT was still crystal clear and sitting at seven. My MT was empty and I had seven in the BK.

I pumped the last 7 into the MT... sparged... and then pumped it into the BK... four came out.

My HLT was completely empty.

We scooped out all of the grains (which were "dry" as you would expect them to be) and looked... the MT was completely empty.


... and I was sitting there with 11 gallons in the BK.


My MT is some sort of BLACK HOLE!!!!
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Old 03-09-2009, 08:05 PM   #20
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I don't see how that could be it... if that was the case, my HLT would have clouded up a little bit from my mash leaking into it and it didn't.

My HLT stood perfectly static at 15 gallons during the mashing process and the water never got cloudy. I pumped 9 gallons from the BK into the MT, mashed, and then pumped that same water back into the BK... and only three came out.

ok... so... I lost SIX gallons to absorbtion... I seriously doubt it but I'll assume that for a second.

I then took 8 gallons out of the 15 in the HLT that was still there and still perfectly clear... and pumped them into the MT. My BK level never changed while I was doing that. I'm positive.

After sparging with that, I pumped it into the BK... four came out.

The seven int eh HLT was still crystal clear and sitting at seven. My MT was empty and I had seven in the BK.

I pumped the last 7 into the MT... sparged... and then pumped it into the BK... four came out.

My HLT was completely empty.

We scooped out all of the grains (which were "dry" as you would expect them to be) and looked... the MT was completely empty.


... and I was sitting there with 11 gallons in the BK.


My MT is some sort of BLACK HOLE!!!!
Well, if you rule that out completely.........then perhaps your lines hold more volume than assumed? Measure all your lines that hold liquid and compute the volume. You loss may be completely attributable to absorbtion and the amount remaining in the lines.
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