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Old 06-07-2008, 08:48 PM   #1
bradsul
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Default 108% mash efficiency?!

I've been rock solid in my setup for over a year now and this new grain mill has really thrown a wrench in my brewery (I switched from corona-style getting 85-89% efficiency) to a monster mill 2-roller.

Well today's brew day went fantastic, I nailed all my temps, the sparge went fantastic (much improved over this thread). Now this time instead of hitting my OG of 1.045 (recipe at 75% efficiency) I hit 1.051 and promash is saying my actual mash system efficiency is 108%.

The recipe is below and I'm thinking that the demerara sugar has messed up the calculations somehow, anyone know how I can adjust the recipe to account properly for the sugar? I found the gravity value for it on the net.

For the record: My hydrometer readings were taken at 60F which is the calibration temperature. My hydrometer is accurate in normal water (re-verified today). The reading was taken in the fermenter and entered into promash efficiency calculator within the brewing session.

Code:
It's Not Dark It's Mild

A ProMash Brewing Session - Recipe Details Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L):          25.00    Wort Size (L):     25.00
Total Grain (kg):         4.45
Anticipated OG:          1.045    Plato:             11.08
Anticipated SRM:          19.1
Anticipated IBU:          22.5
Brewhouse Efficiency:       75 %
Wort Boil Time:             60    Minutes

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used:   Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops:         2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops:      10 %
Additional Utilization Used For First Wort Hops: -10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

   %     Amount     Name                          Origin        Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 56.2     2.50 kg.  Maris Otter                   United Kingdom 1.038      3
 16.9     0.75 kg.  Carastan Malt                 Great Britian  1.035     60
  4.5     0.20 kg.  Chocolate Malt                America        1.029    350
 11.2     0.50 kg.  Flaked Corn (Maize)           America        1.040      1
 11.2     0.50 kg.  Demerara Sugar                Generic        1.047      1

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

   Amount     Name                              Form    Alpha  IBU  Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 40.00 g.     Fuggle                            Pellet   4.75  22.5  First WH


Extras

  Amount      Name                           Type      Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  1.00 Unit(s)Irish Moss                     Fining    10 Min.(boil) 


Yeast
-----

Danstar  Nottingham


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name: Double Decoction

Total Grain kg:     3.95
Total Water Qts:   10.47 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water L:    9.91 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass:   0.00
Grain Temp:        23.28 C


                     Step   Rest   Start   Stop  Heat     Infuse   Infuse  Infuse
Step Name            Time   Time   Temp    Temp  Type     Temp     Amount  Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sacc. Rest             0     60    150     150   Infuse   162        9.91   2.51
Mash Out              15     15    168     168   Decoc    212        3.60   3.13 (Decoc Thickness)


Total Water Qts:           10.47 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water L:              9.91 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume L:       12.55 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
All infusion amounts are in Liters.
All infusion ratios are Liters/Kilograms.

Step Time for Decoction Steps represent how far back in time the Decoction was pulled.
Infusion amounts for Decoction Steps represent the amount pulled for the Decoction.
Infusion ratios for Decoction Steps represent the Decoction Thickness.
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Old 06-07-2008, 08:52 PM   #2
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I always take my readings from the fermenter...but if I set ProMash to "readings taken from fermenter" rather than "readings taken from kettle", I always get absurd #'s like in the high 90's. Something's not right, because I doubt I'm getting that high. Same here. ProMash is off, dude...I'm pretty sure about that. What you need to do is calibrate and verify all the settings in your "water needed" dialog box. It probably defaults to some crap where you're supposedly losing half a gallon to evap between the kettle and the fermenter, which is hogwash. Fiddle with those settings (like it's set to lose 1/2 gal to a CF chiller even though I don't have one) and you'll get it more towards correct.

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Old 06-07-2008, 08:53 PM   #3
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Beer Alchemy has demerara sugar at 1.045 ppg so that seems right.

Are you sure your volume measurements are right? Maybe less liquid there than you think. Only thing I can think of.

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Old 06-07-2008, 09:04 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradsul View Post

The recipe is below and I'm thinking that the demerara sugar has messed up the calculations somehow, anyone know how I can adjust the recipe to account properly for the sugar? I found the gravity value for it on the net.
If the gravity is 1.047 like its listed you can change that in.... (Checking promash....) In grains section. (on the bottom, main screen) Find demerara sugar, select it and edit. Set it lower.

FYI - Mine is set at 1.041

Hope this helps!!!!
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Old 06-07-2008, 09:07 PM   #5
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My volumes are all correct and previous to this promash has always been dead solid perfect with the numbers. I've had my system dialed in for a long time now. The only thing that was new about this in terms of ingredients, (the other change was the crush based on the new mill) was the demerara adjunct, I'd never used it before.

I had built this up as an all-grain recipe in promash, I just re-did it as a partial mash and got the same numbers so I'm not sure what's up. Will be interesting to see what happens with my next batch.

It's weird to have problems like this after having the system basically on auto-pilot for over a year now.

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Old 06-07-2008, 09:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schlenkerla View Post
If the gravity is 1.047 like its listed you can change that in.... (Checking promash....) In grains section. (on the bottom, main screen) Find demerara sugar, select it and edit. Set it lower.

FYI - Mine is set at 1.041

Hope this helps!!!!
That actually raised my efficiency to 109%.
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Old 06-07-2008, 09:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradsul View Post
That actually raised my efficiency to 109%.
You should try your hand at oil refining...you might just end the energy crisis!
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Old 06-07-2008, 09:26 PM   #8
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Oh and just so I'm clear: I don't actually think I got 108% efficiency. I'm just trying to figure out where I went wrong. As I said all my volumes are correct and the hydrometer is accurate (and accurately read).

We finally got a beautiful day here on the weekend so I guess something had to mess it up.

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Old 06-07-2008, 10:26 PM   #9
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I just plugged that recipe into promash, and with your OG of 1.051, it came out at 90% efficiency. Seems like your new mill is working well.

-a.

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Old 06-08-2008, 01:42 AM   #10
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maybe someone at the LHBS accidently dropped a bag of sugar in your grains??

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