Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Last Sponsor Giveaway of the Year!

Come Enter the BrewDeals/FastFerment Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Bottling/Kegging > Keg System Balancing / Foamy Beer
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-27-2010, 05:14 AM   #1
Llama
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 32
Default Keg System Balancing / Foamy Beer

Hey All,

I'm relatively new to kegging and I'm having a beast of a time getting my beer to not be so foamy (all foam, really).

I'm confused about this whole keg balancing thing and thinking it might be the cause of my problem.

Heres my setup:

Keg at 10 psi at 39 degrees, 10 feet of 3/16'' ID hose, with Perlick forward seal faucet. This all resides in a keezer, with the faucet just above the top of the keg (in the collar). I also do not force carbonate because I realize it can cause foaming problems.

I'm confused because kegman (http://kegman.net/balance.html) says I should only be using 2 feet of hose... but I have 10ft because that's the suggestion on hbtalk.

Is balancing my issue... or something else?

Thanks guys (and gals) !

__________________

Llama is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-27-2010, 01:40 PM   #2
73Drvr
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 73
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

You need the restriction of the hose to match the psi of the keg.

3/16"id hose provides about 3 psi of restriction per foot.

1/4" id hose provides about 1 psi of restriction per foot.

So you would need to reduce the length of your 3/16" hose to about 40" or switch to 10' of 1/4" hose.

These are estimations so you don't have to be exact, just close. But right now you are way off, definitely causing the foaming.

Or, if changing the hose will be a real pain. You could dial the regulator up to 30 psi(to match your current hose), pour your beer, and then dial it back down to 10 to maintain the keg pressure. (Never tried this myself, but it should work.)

__________________

73Drvr is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-27-2010, 02:00 PM   #3
brrman
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Indianapolis, IN, Indiana
Posts: 1,463
Liked 38 Times on 33 Posts
Likes Given: 22

Default

Yeah my guess is that you are unbalanced. You line length/psi could very well be the culprit.

__________________
* My Bar Build
8-Paws Brewing Co.
Primary:. Peanut Butter Chocolate Stout
. Heavenly Scourge Black IIPA
On Deck:. Sycamore Porter
brrman is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-27-2010, 06:15 PM   #4
Troubs
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Woonsocket RI
Posts: 241
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Not trying to jack the thread but I am also new to kegging and have a very similar problem and set up. Typical keezer setup with 10ft of 3/16th line from keg to faucet. I measured the height from the tap to the center of the keg to be 2 feet. So using the formula it tells me that I should be serving at 28 PSI.

28 = (10ft x 2.7) + (2 x 0.5)

I carb the beer to style for 3 weeks. I have been serving at 12 PSI and this gives me A LOT of foam and virtually no carbonation left in the beer when I pour.

To get that PSI number down to 12ish would require me to cut my lines to 4ft. Does this sound right? I originally planned on 10 foot lines from suggestions here on the board but the math and the beer are telling me something very different.

__________________

Frank Sinatra - “I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day.”

Troubs is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-27-2010, 07:53 PM   #5
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 62,303
Liked 4782 Times on 3477 Posts
Likes Given: 956

Default

I don't think longer lines are a problem at all- the only "problem" from a longer line is a slower pour.

Troubs, your problem is carbing at 20 psi- that's a very high carb level. You're WAY overcarbed In my fridge, at 39 degrees, 12 psi gives me 2.52 volumes of co2- perfect for most beer styles I make. http://www.ebrew.com/primarynews/ct_...tion_chart.htm

So, work from the other direction. Carb the beer appropriately, THEN decide your line length.

If you carb the beer appropriately according to the carb chart I referenced, that will solve the overcarb problem.

Secondly, no reason to shorten the lines. That won't fix the problem- it doesn't cause foaming. Just a slower pour, and possibly less head.

For the OP, I'm not sure what the issue is. At 10 psi, and 39 degrees, and 10 feet of line, you shouldn't have any foaming at all. It should be fine. I'm assuming you don't add priming sugar, and don't shake the keg. I'm at a completely loss. What happens when you purge the co2 out of the keg, and reset it to 2 psi to push the beer out? Is it overcarbed/undercarbed?

__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-27-2010, 08:15 PM   #6
Troubs
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Woonsocket RI
Posts: 241
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

I'm sorry if my post wasn't clear. I actually carb to style for 3 weeks (usually 11-14 PSI) typically and serv it at 12PSI. When I ran the numbers in the calculator it tells me that I SHOULD be serving at 28 PSI. I don't actually do this. Like I said, I serve at 12PSI but when I do I have the problems that I mentioned (lots of foam, no carbonation in the beer). So I guess my question is should I listen to the calculator at cut my lines to 4 feet with the hopes that it will resolve my problems (which it sounds like it won't )

__________________

Frank Sinatra - “I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day.”

Troubs is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-27-2010, 08:27 PM   #7
73Drvr
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 73
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubs View Post
I'm sorry if my post wasn't clear. I actually carb to style for 3 weeks (usually 11-14 PSI) typically and serv it at 12PSI. When I ran the numbers in the calculator it tells me that I SHOULD be serving at 28 PSI. I don't actually do this. Like I said, I serve at 12PSI but when I do I have the problems that I mentioned (lots of foam, no carbonation in the beer). So I guess my question is should I listen to the calculator at cut my lines to 4 feet with the hopes that it will resolve my problems (which it sounds like it won't )
You want your beer to be served at 12 psi. But, you're correct, 10' of 3/16" has ~30 psi of restriction.

This is the same exact problem as the original poster. You have 2 options. Shorten the hose, or go to 1/4". 1/4" hose at 10'-12' will give you 10-12 psi of restriction, eliminating the foam.
__________________
73Drvr is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-28-2010, 03:45 AM   #8
Llama
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 32
Default

Thanks for the help all!

I just purged the CO2 and then set it to 2psi as you suggested YB. The beer is a bit undercarbed.

I also forgot to mention that, in the current setup, I can fill a pint with foam in a second. I bet that is part of the problem... yet you said with 10 feet of 3/16th line it should pour very slowly..... so now I'm even more confused. I had some of those epoxy mixers in the kegs before, it definitely poured slower but it was still all foam. I took them out to eliminate a source of error.

Just to mention, I keep the CO2 bottle and regulator inside the keezer. I should probably get it out of there, eh? (PV=nRT (ideal gas law) is probably messing up my beer).

Troubs, it's good to know someone else has my problem!

__________________
Llama is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-28-2010, 11:42 AM   #9
73Drvr
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 73
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Yeah, 2 psi is going to be undercarbed for any beer style. YB said 2.5 volumes of CO2 which equates to 12 psi at 39 degrees. And, yes, 2 psi will not be able to push beer through 10' of hose without it being slow and foamy.

I guess I'm not explaining very well. If you can, listen to the Basic Brewing Radio podcast from 11-13-08 or if you have BYO Magazine from Mar-Apr 2003 they both explain the hose restriction situation. You will come out of either with the understanding that you need to either shorten your 3/16" hose or switch to 1/4" hose if you need that long of a run.

Keeping the CO2 tank in the freezer will in no way mess up your beer. The pressure indicating on the gauge will change, but that doesn't change how the CO2 interacts with the beer. Some people worry about condensation getting in the gauges. Which may be a problem, I don't know, I never have had that problem.

__________________
73Drvr is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-30-2010, 08:27 PM   #10
Llama
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 32
Default

I asked the guy at my LHBS, and he said there may be some junk in my dip-tube. We'll see if a good scrubbing resolves the problem...

__________________
Llama is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
balancing keg system with different size lines ranch Bottling/Kegging 9 10-28-2010 04:00 AM
System Balancing Q hammer one Bottling/Kegging 8 08-19-2008 02:46 PM
Balancing my keg system. evandam Equipment/Sanitation 10 08-08-2008 08:25 PM
Foamy beer from tap still after balancing lines NitrouStang96 Bottling/Kegging 3 06-06-2008 02:14 PM
Kegerator - Foamy Beer - Need Help: Temp Solution & Balancing Atl300zx Bottling/Kegging 12 11-29-2007 03:13 AM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS