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Old 02-18-2006, 06:29 PM   #21
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I just went out to the garage and poured the first glass of beer from my keg. I had no issues with foam pouring at 12 psi. I'm using the setup that was supplied with my keg system that I bought online from ebrew.com. The hose is about 5.5' long, seems to work just fine.
The beer seems to have a good amount of carbonation after almost 2 days of being in the keg, couple more days and I think it will be real nice

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Old 02-18-2006, 07:16 PM   #22
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I dropped the pressure from 10 to 5 PSI and poured a pint. It worked great! Only problem is now I have to keep adjusting the pressure on the regulator.
Here it is. Pretty good beer I might add.

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Old 02-18-2006, 08:36 PM   #23
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Good lookin' pint! What happens if you just leave the pressure set at 10psi and pour?

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Old 02-18-2006, 08:51 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichBrewer
My system came with a 4 foot 3/16 ID beer line. Do I need to get a longer one? I'm Going to try and pour another glass here in a minute. Wish me luck!
Sounds a little short to me. If you have easy access to this stuff try a 6 foot length and see what happens. Compare back to back if you can.
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Old 02-19-2006, 12:27 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
You're exactly right. The CO2 will not stay in solution if you reduce the pressure from 12 to 3 psi, contrary to the belief of some posters.

As an experiment, open a big bottle of coke. Pour some out. Reseal the bottle and come back in a week. Has the coke retained it's full carbonation? No. The CO2 came out of solution in an effort to equalize the pressure in the bottle. Basic physics.
I don't think your example holds true to real life situations. Yes, coke goes flat when you leave it in the bottle for a week. It could be attributed to the fact that there is 0 PSI in the bottle, not 10 or 5 or whatever. Perhaps some amount of PSI in the keg could cause the CO2 to stay diluted in the beer. I dunno. All I know is that I have a American Pale Ale that's been on tap for about 4 weeks or so now at 10 PSI after being carbonated at a higher volume and there has been no noticeable decline in CO2 in the beer.
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Old 02-19-2006, 05:21 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeCoastie
Good lookin' pint! What happens if you just leave the pressure set at 10psi and pour?
If I leave the pressure at 10 PSI the beer, or should I say foam, rushes out way too fast. I turn it down to 5 psi and I get a nice flow rate with little foam.
Maybe the beer line is too short. I might try to change it to 6 feet. Now, where can I find some of this line???
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Old 02-19-2006, 05:27 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowain
I don't think your example holds true to real life situations. Yes, coke goes flat when you leave it in the bottle for a week. It could be attributed to the fact that there is 0 PSI in the bottle, not 10 or 5 or whatever. Perhaps some amount of PSI in the keg could cause the CO2 to stay diluted in the beer.
Ok, there seems to still be some confusion.

All the doubters please go memorize this first:

http://members.aol.com/profchm/boyle.html

If you don't like his law go argue with him, not me. Now please read this regarding the coke analogy

http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae653.cfm

The amount of CO2 dissolved in a liquid is directly linked to the temperature of the liquid and the pressure of the gas. If you change one or the other, the amount of gas dissolved in the liquid also changes. There is no physical law that states that once a gas is dissolved in a liquid it can't or won't come back out. It does.

If you carbonate a beer at 20psi and at typical serving temperatures, a fixed and finite amount of CO2 will dissolve in the beer, given sufficient time. The exact amount is quoted in a myriad of tables that are available online and in brewing books.

If you reduce that pressure to 19psi, a small amount of gas will come back out of solution and stabilize. If you reduce it to 1psi, almost all of the gas will come back out and stabilize. Boyle says so.

The Coke example I gave is correct and accurate, but extreme because the keg (bottle) pressure was reduced to atmospheric, and a large proportion of the contents was poured out. The remaining Coke went almost flat after the bottle was recapped because most of the remaining CO2 in the Coke came back out of solution to balance the partial pressure inside the bottle. Blame Boyle.

The goal with kegging beer is:

1) choosing our favourite serving temperature
2) choosing our favourite carbonation level
3) finding a way to get the beer out of the keg and into our glass with the temperature and carbonation level intact.

You can do all the gyrations you want with shaking kegs and playing with pressures up and down but Mr. Boyle states that it will make no difference in the end.

What you DON'T want to do with pouring a kegged beer is have all the CO2 come out of solution in a great rush- this causes the dreaded foaming.

Aside from having every piece of your system kept at serving temperature (including the serving line and tap) you need to find a way to 'ease' the beer from 10-12 psig in the keg, to your glass which is at atmospheric or zero psig. The standard way of doing this is to use restrictor tubing which is quoted to have 1.5 to 2 psi 'resistance' per foot. The resistance number is only applicable for a certain density of liquid traveling at a certain speed, but the quoted number works for beer.

Think of it this way - if your beer is stabilized at 12 psi, and you have 5 feet of tubing @ 2 psi drop per foot, then the beer will exit the tubing at 2 psi. Beer exiting the tubing at 2 psi into your glass (sitting at 0 psi) will do very little foaming.

There's other factors that come in to play that require some fine tuning (vertical height of your tap above the keg is one) and individual characteristics of serving taps, etc. but the concept is sound and is used in pubs and breweries around the world.

Hope this helps.
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Old 02-19-2006, 05:42 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
Think of it this way - if your beer is stabilized at 12 psi, and you have 5 feet of tubing @ 2 psi drop per foot, then the beer will exit the tubing at 2 psi. Beer exiting the tubing at 2 psi into your glass (sitting at 0 psi) will do very little foaming.
Hope this helps.
OK. Now that makes more sense than anything else I've read. Can I just use this idea to figure the length of the beer line instead of using all of those formulas that don't make any sense to me?
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Old 02-19-2006, 06:51 PM   #29
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There is a complex relation ship between a liquid, temperature and how much and how fast gas is absorbed into the liquid, there is also a similar relationship as to how quickly the co2 pressure that is held within that liquid will come out of suspension. It’s this relationship that I suggested exploiting in order to serve carbonated beer using low pressures to prevent foaming.

If you have every used a secondary fermenter and airlock at lower temperatures say to allow a beer to fall bright, you may have noticed that the beer can become carbonated despite the airlock allowing the pressure to equalise with ambient. If the beer is disturbed (ie stirred) it will release its co2 due creating a pressure at the surface greater than ambient. There is no doubt co2 will eventually come out of suspension of its own accord, which is why I suggested that if the poster was having problems with flat beer that he increased the pressure over night before serving again.

The shaking of the keg technique is not something that I use but is used by many corni owners to speed up the rate of absorption, I have no idea how it works but I can assure you it does, I deliberately tested the method before posting to make sure it did. Why don’t you try it next time? Apply a pressure to the keg disconnect the supply and shake; the pressure gauge indicates a drop. A similar thing happens when a perfectly sealed pressurised keg is exposed to a drop in temperature say over night. Despite the temperature returning the next day there is now little or no pressure in the keg, it hasn’t leaked out or disobeyed boles law, the co2 pressure is simply suspended in the liquid. This is why the coke doesn’t go flat the moment the pressure on the liquid is allowed to equalise with ambient pressure.

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Old 02-19-2006, 08:31 PM   #30
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I had the same problem when I first started kegging, the foam was horrible. I finally discovered that I had no O Ring under the outlet tube and the gas was pumping as much air from the leak as it was beer. Check your O rings.

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