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Old 11-21-2012, 01:55 PM   #641
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Originally Posted by Sippin37 View Post
Google beer carbonation chart by temp. But yeah yours will be fine in a week or so at about 12 PSI and 38 degrees. Always give it 2 weeks minimum on gas before you start worrying about it being under carbed. Cheers!
OR you could just look at the first post and get the link there.
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:21 PM   #642
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Originally Posted by brewtus72 View Post
Hey guys I have an ipa under co2 right now with a set and forget. Never hit it any when it was warm just transfered into the sanke put everything back and set it at 11psi. Is this not nearly enough too carb my neer? It is around 38 in my keggerator. This is also a 1/2 sanke so 15 gallon with a five gallon batch. I tasted it after a week and almost zero carb maybe a touch. is it not carbing because its not set high enough or because its a higher abv beer 6.7%. Can you guys help me im a newb and have no clue how to do the math.
Someone please jump in if I'm incorrect about this, but he says he's got 5g in a 15g keg. At 11psi wouldn't the last week he's been carbing it have mostly been spent on filling the headspace?

Either bump it up a bit (18ish) for another week, then test every other day until it seems good and back it down to 11, or just wait another 3 weeks or so until the 11psi has both filled the headspace and infiltrated the beer. Just don't crank it and leave it cranked. You can always add more, but it's annoying and takes a long time to calm a beer down, CO2-wise.
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:49 PM   #643
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The head space fills up to the set pressure very quickly. Most of the time is spent on the CO2 from the head space dissolving into the beer. Since the regulator keeps the head pressure constant, it shouldn't take any longer in a 15 gal keg than a 5 gallon. It could even take less with a larger gas-liquid interface.

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Old 12-17-2012, 09:28 PM   #644
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Originally Posted by casuald View Post
I am quite new to this, and in fact this is my first post, but here is my 24 hour method.

I purge the keg a few times, set the seals with a quick blast at 30psi, then turn the regulator down to whatever pressure I intend to serve at, usually 12 psi, and chill the keg for 12-24 hours. When the beer is cold I roll the keg vigorously on its side until I hear the CO2 stop flowing, and then for a good minute or two more. I do not increase the CO2 pressure while rolling the keg, so it doesn’t over carbonate the beer.

And that pretty much does it. Once the keg has settled down for a few hours, I find it pours very drinkable, nicely carbonated beer. For that matter, I bet you could dispense into a pitcher and pour serviceable beer from that into your mug within 5 minutes of rolling the keg. This might mean I’m impatient, but I find patience is easier with a fresh pint of beer in my hand.
I think ill try this method
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:33 PM   #645
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Originally Posted by Bobby_M View Post
Man, we could have saved a lot of chaos by going from post 1 directly to this one.

If you do run the numbers, don't forget to consider the surface area between the headspace and beer. I think it matters but I'm not sure. I always wanted to actually measure the partial pressure every 24 hours for 3 weeks to better plot the real rates of absorption but I don't have the discipline to pull it off.
Bobby M,
After taking a hiatus to the wonderful country of Afghanistan for 9+ months, I started to experiment with the a few different partial pressure laws on my beers upon my return. Namely Henry, Amagat, and Daltons' laws. There are way too many variables to come up with for a single solution (time, beer temp, beer density, CO2 temp, beer volume, surface area, and tap height or press release height). The one variable that doesn't compensate is the line pressure, which was throwing me for a loop. Essentially I was over-carbing all of my beers using a boost carb method that I came up with; or so it seemed. It turned out my lines (3.5 feet long), where way too short. The partial pressure in the keg was probably close, but the lines were ruining it. I.e. the beer was probably the correct vol CO2, but once it left the keg, the CO2 quickly came out of solution. I swapped my lines out for 9 foot lines, and it made all the difference. One thing I'm still trying to determine in balancing your keg, is where is the reference height that you calc your tap height off of is...the bottom of the pickup tube, the top of the keg, or where the top of the beer in the keg (that is always dropping). I would argue it's the moving beer height within the keg. But this thread is getting way too long. Happy New Year's...
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:37 PM   #646
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Originally Posted by Bobby_M View Post
If you rely on a bottle of CO2 gas for carbing your kegged beer, there are basically two ways to go about it; set and forget and what I'll call "burst carbing". Some folks talk about this second method as "force carbing" but it's all done with force so forget it. For example sake, let's assume you want to carb your 45ºF beer to 2 volumes of CO2....

Set and forget relies on certain gas laws that will determine the carbonation level based on pressure and temperature. The volumes of carbonation will eventually reach an equilibrium to the head space pressure that is applied (what the regulator is set to). You'd use the charts like this one http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php to figure out what that pressure needs to be. In our example, the chart shows it would take 9 psi to reach 2 volumes in your 45ºF beer.

The second method, burst carbonation, uses a much higher initial pressure and even some gas diffusion techniques like shaking or airstones to encourage a quicker solution of the gas. In our example, you might put 30psi on initially. If you refer back to the chart, you'll see this pressure, if left long enough will equilibrate to 3.79 volumes given enough time. The trick/difficulty in this method is knowing how long to leave it at the elevated pressure to get close to your desired volumes without overcarbing.

Some people understand pictures better than words so I drew this.



The green line is the set and forget method. You can see that it will take about 2 weeks to reach your desired volumes. Some folks will argue that they have carbonation in 1 week but "some" carbonation is not exactly equilibrated carb level though you might enjoy it anyway. I'm not 100% sure how long it takes but I have noted an increased carb level between week 1 and 2 on more than a few batches so I'm calling it 2 weeks to get it pretty close. You'll notice a small increase from week 2 to 3 but it's slight.

The blue line is just an example of a well executed boost carb. You'd leave it at approximately 3 times the equilibrium pressure for 24 hours, then drop it down and purge the keg so the headspace is now at the "chart pressure". If you do it right, you'll get close and then it will only take a couple more days to reach your desired volumes.

Highlighted for emphasis: More often than not, people in a hurry will try boosting even more by going with higher pressures and/or shaking the heck out of the keg. This usually results in what the red line is showing. You overshoot the carb level and then fight with the keg for several days to get it back down by purging the pressure a few times.

The final point I want to make is that the only reason I'd advocate a boost carb is when your beer has already aged/conditioned prior to making it to your kegerator and you need the beer to be drinkable in less than two weeks (poor planning on your part of course). I noted on the chart that if you went from primary right to keg at week zero, no matter how fast you carb, it will still take at least 3 weeks to taste decent. Therefore, why boost carb at all?
I'm new to kegging-

does the 'set it and forget it' method still apply if, for example, I want to only carbonate 1 gallon in a 5 gallon keg? It would still take 2 weeks to carbonate if set to 10 psi?
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:06 AM   #647
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No, it would be quicker

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Old 01-03-2013, 01:31 AM   #648
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No, it would be quicker
Is there any way to figure out how much quicker or is it simply by trial and error? Like say it takes 2 weeks for 5 gallons, should it take 1/5th the time (3 days) for 1/5th the volume (1 gallon) (assuming same surface area exposed to the CO2)?

I would like carbonate some of my mead, but not all of it. Probably no more than 2 gallons at a time. Is the best way to go about this buying a 2.5 gallon kegging system like this:

http://www.homebrewing.org/25-Gallon-Metal-Handle-kegging-system_p_2972.html
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:44 PM   #649
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Re: Bobby M's post 646.

An excellent & simple answer to the often asked question of newcomers to carbing.
Addressing particularly newcomers, I think several additional points are worth making:
1) "Set & forget" necessitates the CO2 regulator being left open for the whole time generally in the order of 2 - 3 weeks. This is OK but only when the brewer is certain that his/her system has no leaks. In my case I tested for leaks (very thoroughly I thought), but lost all my CO2 gas over a few days due to a minute leak. Finally able to detect it only after putting the pressurised keg into my swimming pool!!
CO2 is not low cost & I never now leave the regulator permanently on.
I start force carbing at 50 psi & re-pressurise at about 2 day intervals until the gas uptake slows when I reduce the pressure to about 20 psi & repressurise then at about 3 day intervals. Soon things come to equilibrium & in my case I settle around 8 psi.
2) Remember that a "full" keg has only a relatively small "airspace" so pressurising to 50 is not actually introducing very much gas. By the same reasoning you will find that only a few glasses dispensed from a new keg (with regulator shut) will result in the keg pressure falling to as little as 2 to 4 psi & the dispensing rate will fall quickly.
Possibly a good idea to allow the regulator to remain open, but set at a lower (than 8 psi) pressure during "dispensing". I say that because I find 8 psi is too high for dispensing in my case despite quite long lines.

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Old 02-04-2013, 08:10 PM   #650
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Just the tread I was looking for. I have a kegerator and would like to have one batch on tap and a second carbonating. Pretty sure I have room for both to chill but I can't currently have them both hooked to the co2. Surely there are several ways to go about this. Not too concerned with a two week wait. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

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