Ss Brewing Technologies Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Bottling/Kegging > Keg conditioning vs force carbonation.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-08-2013, 07:40 PM   #21
sawbossFogg
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Mammoth Lakes, California
Posts: 243
Liked 13 Times on 10 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmb View Post
You'll find that N2 is considered insoluble (hard to dissolve) into beer and is thus used for high pressure draft systems for overcoming resistance in long haul lines because it won't affect carb volume like using standard CO2 in these situations.

Even the graph covers that. N2 doesn't carbonate beer at any of the pressures used to dispense it.
The N2 graph references solubility as a function of temperature. Please, Sparky enlighten me.
__________________
sawbossFogg is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-08-2013, 07:58 PM   #22
mmb
FNG
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
mmb's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mid-Michigan
Posts: 24,202
Liked 3156 Times on 3063 Posts
Likes Given: 168

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbossFogg View Post
The N2 graph references solubility as a function of temperature. Please, Sparky enlighten me.
At about a hundredth that of CO2. Perhaps you missed

Quote:
N2 doesn't carbonate beer at any of the pressures used to dispense it.
Reading is fundamental.
__________________
White Dog Aleworks and Drafthouse
mmb is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-08-2013, 08:15 PM   #23
sawbossFogg
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Mammoth Lakes, California
Posts: 243
Liked 13 Times on 10 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmb View Post
At about a hundredth that of CO2. Perhaps you missed

Reading is fundamental.

Ahh, got it. Not saying your wrong, just working through it. In fact for interest sake, I just poured a bit of an Imperial Stout that sat on the beer gas at 45 F for 4 days at 30 PSI and yeah its pretty much flat, whereas if it were CO2 it'd be overcarbed. The last chart/intel I need to find is what are ideal carb units for preparing to push w beer gas are, in the past I've had over-carb issues.

And since were being assholes, I'll mention that it's also fundamental not to crap the bed in the World Series!
__________________
sawbossFogg is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-08-2013, 08:23 PM   #24
gizmodog51
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: deland, florida
Posts: 240
Liked 12 Times on 9 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

to answer the original question......

after reading an interesting thread on pressure fermenting....i decided to try my hand at it.

i had experience keg conditioning, which to me is dosing the already fermented beer that's in the keg with corn sugar, beet sugar I.E. whatever a person might use for priming.

force carbonation, shoot the keg with CO2 at specified pressure kept at controlled temp for a period OR roll the keg around let it set and check by tapping.

have done both of these methods but after reading the aforementioned article i decided to ferment till bubbler was showing only one bubble @ minute. then rack over to keg add 1/4 C priming sugar...i use beet sugar.
this kicks the pressures up to just a hair below 40 psig on my spunge valve.
pressures may have gone to 40 psi and activate the preset blow-off but if so i never saw the guage at 40. so far i haven't been around when the blow off has occured, if ever. so i'd say mostly 37-39ish...psig in keg.
i usually leave the beer under pressure for several weeks....then cold crash for a couple days...release the pressure and tap.
i'm VERY happy with this method. the cascading small bubbles and great head to almost the empty class is great. it is especially enjoyable in a dark to medium colored beer. one would swear it was beer gas carbed poured thru a creamer tap.
also this has helped to cut down on gas useage.
since my experience with this method i don't carb anyother way.
yes there is a small amount of trub in the first glass but if i'm careful and not to concerned about every last drop from the carboy the amount will be small and worth the effort and the beer, from then on is Kystral klear. uless a wit or hefe.

GD

__________________
gizmodog51 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-08-2013, 08:26 PM   #25
JuanMoore
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
JuanMoore's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Old Pueblo
Posts: 16,401
Liked 3220 Times on 3123 Posts
Likes Given: 18

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbossFogg View Post
In fact for interest sake, i just poured a bit of an Imperial Stout that sat at 45 F for 4 days at 30 PSI and yeah its pretty much flat, whereas if it were CO2 it'd be overcarbed. The last chart/intel I need to find is what are ideal carb units for preparing to push w beer gas.
Using 25/75 beergas? Even if you let it reach equilibrium over several weeks at that temp and pressure you'd only have ~0.9 vol of carbonation. 1.0-1.8 vol is pretty standard carbonation for serving through a nitro faucet. Here's a carbonation calculator designed for beergas that you might find useful-

http://mcdantim.mobi/easypsig.html
__________________
Keezer Soze

Yuri rubs it out with 60 grit... wouldn't even feel a tenga egg. -Randar

, place entry ox dixla to suck. Fcxk fwnpoo and passed. Hel an my spupid ass. OK. - TXCrash
JuanMoore is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-08-2013, 10:18 PM   #26
sawbossFogg
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Mammoth Lakes, California
Posts: 243
Liked 13 Times on 10 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

Thanks! The Beer Gas I buy from AirGas corp I think is the standard 75%N2-25%CO2

After all this, I just took the keg I've had canned for a week and on the beer gas for a little less than that, released the pressure and put in on about 10 PSI of CO2 and gave it about 50 lap rolls. I'll pr let it sit for a week, pour it through the faucet and go from there. And if I were to be at a predicted ~2 Volumes CO2 the worksheet you've shared suggests dispensing at 17 PSI. Interesting stuff.

__________________
sawbossFogg is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-08-2013, 10:19 PM   #27
sawbossFogg
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Mammoth Lakes, California
Posts: 243
Liked 13 Times on 10 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

This method sounds pretty fun, I've heard a bit about it before, seems fairly logical. Can you provide any info on the article referenced?

__________________
sawbossFogg is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-08-2013, 10:24 PM   #28
Shooter
Almaigan Brewing Co.
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Shooter's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Dublin (No, not that Dublin)
Posts: 4,453
Liked 231 Times on 179 Posts
Likes Given: 38

Default

As to the original question, my keezer has room for three kegs, one is usually a five gallon commercial keg, and two full of homebrew. Since I have four other kegs, I just transfer the beer to a keg and let it age for another month or so until a tap frees up. Since it's just going to be sitting there anyway, it might as well be carbonating at the same time. That is why I prime with sugar, no other reason.

__________________

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. - C. S. Lewis, English essayist & juvenile novelist (1898 - 1963)

Shooter is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-08-2013, 10:29 PM   #29
emjay
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
emjay's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 12,694
Liked 1714 Times on 1602 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbossFogg View Post

Ahh, got it. Not saying your wrong, just working through it. In fact for interest sake, I just poured a bit of an Imperial Stout that sat on the beer gas at 45 F for 4 days at 30 PSI and yeah its pretty much flat, whereas if it were CO2 it'd be overcarbed. The last chart/intel I need to find is what are ideal carb units for preparing to push w beer gas are, in the past I've had over-carb issues.

And since were being assholes, I'll mention that it's also fundamental not to crap the bed in the World Series!
The whole reason nitrogen is used at all is BECAUSE it barely dissolves (it will a tiny bit, but it's negligible). It allows you to push beer at the higher pressures required due to the restrictor plate, WITHOUT the subsequent overcarbing that you'd get if you used solely CO2 at those pressures.

It's not because the nitrogen itself gives the beer a different quality - ANY insoluble gas (like argon, as previously mentioned) will accomplish the exact same thing. In fact, 100% argon (and less frequently, 100% nitrogen) is used to push wine and other still beverages through a draught system for precisely the same reason... since it doesn't dissolve, it won't start carbonating (or otherwise make sparkling) the wine no matter how long you keep it on the gas for.
__________________
emjay is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-08-2013, 10:31 PM   #30
sawbossFogg
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Mammoth Lakes, California
Posts: 243
Liked 13 Times on 10 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmb View Post
At about a hundredth that of CO2. Perhaps you missed



Reading is fundamental.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emjay View Post
The whole reason nitrogen is used at all is BECAUSE it barely dissolves (it will a tiny bit, but it's negligible). It allows you to push beer at the higher pressures required due to the restrictor plate, WITHOUT the subsequent overcarbing that you'd get if you used solely CO2 at those pressures.

It's not because the nitrogen itself gives the beer a different quality - ANY insoluble gas (like argon, as previously mentioned) will accomplish the exact same thing. In fact, 100% argon (and less frequently, 100% nitrogen) is used to push wine and other still beverages through a draught system for precisely the same reason... since it doesn't dissolve, it won't start carbonating (or otherwise make sparkling) the wine no matter how long you keep it on the gas for.
sounds good
__________________
sawbossFogg is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Force Carb vs. Conditioning MikeMetroka Bottling/Kegging 9 01-12-2012 09:14 AM
Force carbonation vs bottle conditioning? petrostar General Techniques 11 10-11-2011 04:04 PM
Bottle conditioning vs. force carbonation for long term storage 54BelAir Bottling/Kegging 4 10-08-2011 03:14 PM
New to brewing, Force Carbonation? or natural Carbonation? tha_cyko Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 1 07-01-2011 02:20 AM
Conditioning / Force Carbing Question CarsonCE Bottling/Kegging 4 01-04-2010 08:58 PM