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Old 07-20-2012, 10:38 PM   #21
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Hi

Bob
Your 'probe on wall' approach is no different than using a smaller facsimile of a keg of beer. The difference is that using your method, you have to account for the severe impact of the freon influence in the control loop. Finding the location of the loops in order to avoid them is the easy part, getting all of the offsets and differential correct is the hard part.

Using a small bottle, with the probe on or in it, is essentialy your same set up, with the severity of the freon impact mitigated. The smaller bottle, as well as the insulation if the probe is taped to the side, serve to both cut on early and cut off early, which is what you tout as the benefit of your approach.

Additionally, taping the probe to the wall also increases the effect of external ambient temps on the control system. The 'probe on bottle/facsimile' has a bit of this as well, but the severity of the impact is reduced, and more importantly, no adjustment is needed since there is no offset of the temp setpoint from the desired beer temp (as long as a reasonable facsimile is used).
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Old 07-21-2012, 02:03 AM   #22
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3) There is absolutely no way you will ever listen to anything but your own ideas. You have made that abundantly and violently clear.

Bob
Did you mean to say 'vehemently'? I would agree with that.

If you indeed meant 'violently', here is an appropriate cinematic reference- "Because I was afraid of worms, Roxanne! Worms!"
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:22 PM   #23
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I'm very interested in this thread since we will be purchasing a 7.0 chest freezer and Ranco Temp Controller. I initially thought that I would immerse the temperature probe into a small bottle of propylene glycol. Please be aware:Neither the Ranco ETC or Johnson A419 probes are recommended for direct submersion in any liquid. The manufacturer recommends use of a thermal or bulb well.. Now I'm wondering if taping the probe to a fermenter or keg and insulating it would be the better way to go.

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Old 10-11-2012, 09:38 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by carlisle_bob View Post
Hi

The idea is to control the temperature *before* it hts your beer. The keg will indeed average the temperature out, but that's not what you want in a controller. You want the control loop to respond quickly to changes and to "control" them out. Put another way, you don't want the beer to change temperature at all.

If you put the probe about half way down the wall, you are well away from any cooling coils on normal freezers. The cycle rate is actualy a bit slower than the originaly designed cycle rate on the freezer.

Bob
Bob, the wall is not what's cooling the beer though. The ambient air is what cools the beer. Therefore, gauging temp based off the wall temp is not an accurate or reliable method. I'm not saying it won't get the job done, but it's not going to be as efficient as taping the probe to a keg.

By having a probe directly on the keg, it measures the temp of the beer inside pretty darn accurately, and changes the ambient temp (by turning on compressor) only when needed.


That being said, there's different ways to do it. I personally don't care enough to affix the probe to a keg each time, so I have it hanging down about halfway, just suspended in mid air (not touching anything). I set my Setpoint to 40F, and my diF to 5 degrees, with a 12 minute anti-short delay. With that method, mine typically cycles on every 20 mins or so, which seems about right (depends on how many kegs with how much beer left in them).
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:07 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by WhiteCliffsBrewery View Post
I'm very interested in this thread since we will be purchasing a 7.0 chest freezer and Ranco Temp Controller. I initially thought that I would immerse the temperature probe into a small bottle of propylene glycol. Please be aware:Neither the Ranco ETC or Johnson A419 probes are recommended for direct submersion in any liquid. The manufacturer recommends use of a thermal or bulb well.. Now I'm wondering if taping the probe to a fermenter or keg and insulating it would be the better way to go.
Depends on the application. For a ferm chamber, I'd suggest taping the probe to the wall of the fermenter containing the most recently brewed beer, and then securing some sort of insulating material on top of the probe (rag, folded up paper towel, scrap of foam, etc. For a kegerator or keezer, I'd suggest taping the probe to a small bottle full of water.

I would not recommend taping the probe to the chamber wall.
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:15 PM   #26
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I personally don't care enough to affix the probe to a keg each time, so I have it hanging down about halfway, just suspended in mid air (not touching anything). I set my Setpoint to 40F, and my diF to 5 degrees, with a 12 minute anti-short delay. With that method, mine typically cycles on every 20 mins or so, which seems about right (depends on how many kegs with how much beer left in them).
Your compressor will last you a lot longer if you secure the probe to something with a little thermal mass. There's no need to mess with the probe every time you change kegs out. I taped my sensor to a small bottle of water that sits out of the way on the compressor hump in the corner. I have a smaller differential that you, and my keezer only kicks on a few times a day when it's full.
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Old 10-12-2012, 01:09 AM   #27
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Depends on the application. For a ferm chamber, I'd suggest taping the probe to the wall of the fermenter containing the most recently brewed beer, and then securing some sort of insulating material on top of the probe (rag, folded up paper towel, scrap of foam, etc. For a kegerator or keezer, I'd suggest taping the probe to a small bottle full of water.

I would not recommend taping the probe to the chamber wall.
Thanks. This freezer will be used for fermenting & lagering (of course at different times) and I have a separate dual tap kegerator for dispensing.
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Old 10-12-2012, 04:54 AM   #28
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I'm very interested in this thread since we will be purchasing a 7.0 chest freezer and Ranco Temp Controller.
The Ranco controller, at least the one commonly sold for homebrew use, does NOT have Anti Short cycle protection. If you want a prebuilt unit, the Johnson digital controller is a better choice. If you want to save some money and don't mind some DIY, look into the thead about the $25 dual stage ebay aquarium controllers. It is a good choice for a ferm chamber left in the garage since it heats or cools automatically with no manual mode changes.
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Old 10-12-2012, 05:08 AM   #29
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Is this thread for real. Literally the easiest thing about brewing is cooling beer. Do what you want, dangle it, tape it to the keezer, tape it to the keg. Choose which way you like best. **** it's not rocket science.

Personally I dangle

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Old 10-12-2012, 06:58 AM   #30
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Is this thread for real. Literally the easiest thing about brewing is cooling beer. Do what you want, dangle it, tape it to the keezer, tape it to the keg. Choose which way you like best. **** it's not rocket science.

Personally I dangle
This whole forum can't be for real can it? Literally, the easiest thing about beer is making it. Quit over-complicating things with things like different special grain combinations, yeast strains, hop varieties, temperature control, etc. It is almost as crazy as all this fanaticism with sanitation- we are trying to make things fester for ****s sake. You put some grain in a pot, dip something dirty in it, let it fester, and you get beer.

Personally I dangle in it.
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