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Old 11-02-2012, 06:39 AM   #1
BrewIt
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Default Growler?

Are you able to bottle with growlers like this from northern brewer?

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/n...growler-1.html

I wasnt sure if the growler will hold the pressure through the process.

Thanks,
Dave

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Old 11-02-2012, 07:08 AM   #2
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I do not believe so sir. But i haven't done it myself so couldn't be 100 with ya. Cheers

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Old 11-02-2012, 08:32 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewIt View Post
Are you able to bottle with growlers like this from northern brewer?

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/n...growler-1.html

I wasnt sure if the growler will hold the pressure through the process.

Thanks,
Dave
From the product description in the link you posted:

Quote:
Avoid bottle carbonating or priming with these growlers, as an unintentionally high level of carbonation could cause the glass to break.
There are plenty of people who will tell you they've bottle conditioned beer in growlers without any problems. Usually that just means they haven't had one explode YET. It's not worth the risk IMO. When they fail it's a huge mess to clean up and a waste of beer, not to mention that exploding glass can be dangerous.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:20 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by JuanMoore View Post
There are plenty of people who will tell you they've bottled conditioned beer in growlers without any problems. Usually that just means they haven't had one explode YET. It's not worth the risk IMO. When they fail it's a huge mess to clean up and a waste of beer, not to mention that exploding glass can be dangerous.
Which part of that couldn't also be said for bottles in general?

There is probably a bit more safety margin in a bottle than a growler (or maybe not), but if you avoid crazy chances and stick to a solid reasonable plan, I don't think the risk would be all that much greater than with a bottle. It sounds to me like more of a CYA kind of thing.

But with that said, maybe I'd err on the side of caution and use lower CO2 volumes for a growler. The bigger issue though is the amount of sediment that will get resuspended with each successive pour. To avoid that, I wouldn't want to bottle in a growler without some sort of tap system that could be used to dispense the beer without tilting it. If such a contraption doesn't already exist though, I'd bet you could build one for cheap. Otherwise, only use the growlers for your hefeweizens.
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:19 PM   #5
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Thanks for the input. I talked to a guy at a local brew shop and he said that you can bottle in a growler. You just need to use a specific cap. Which is these: http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/3...crew-caps.html

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Old 11-03-2012, 06:29 PM   #6
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I've bottled with growlers you just have to make sure they are thick glass, I've used the ones from karl strauss and all 3 I used exploded not a very fun clean up

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Old 11-03-2012, 06:42 PM   #7
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Growlers are meant to hold carbonaTED beer, not carbonATING beer.

There is a difference.Carbonating beer and carbonated beer are not the same. A growler is meant for CARBONATED beer, like from a tap, not beer that is bottle conditioning.

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Originally Posted by Lechien View Post
This is direct from northern brewer website:
Standard issue 64 oz liquid libation transport vessel for the Civilian Brewing Division. This growler features a blank white space for adding in details on the beer inside and date bottled; using a dry-erase marker allows you to change it at any time. Takes a #6 stopper or a 38 mm screw cap. Pressure capable to 2.4 volumes of co2, not recommended for highly carbonated beers. Avoid bottle carbonating or priming with these growlers, as an unintentionally high level of carbonation could cause the glass to break.
Civilian Brewing Division Growler : Northern Brewer

I would hate to see you have a mess.
There's always a few who say they have no problem, but folks also have sex without condoms- Or still smoke, despite knowing its risks.

To carb a beer whether or not is is done naturally or with co2 you are forcing the gas into the solution. The pressure builds up, then there's a point where either the bottle fails or the co2, seeking the path of least resistance, forces itself into solution. You could call it a peak point, where there is a lot of pressure in the bottle, both already in solution and in the headspace trying to go into the solution, eventually it balances out and the beer is carbed.

Beer bottles, champagne bottles and kegs are rated with a higher psi/volume of co2 than wine bottles and growlers.

Already carbed and kegged beer is at a stable volume of co2 which is below the volume that growlers and winebottles are rated at. The FORCING of the co2 already happened. Why do you think kegs are made of metal and very very strong? To handle the pressure.

Our Buddy Rukus

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Originally Posted by RukusDM View Post
This is because during carbing, the pressure can go above 30 or 40 PSI. I have a thread in the cider forum where I did several tests bottle carbing sweet hard cider. There is allot of data there if your interested.

I have a bottle with a pressure gauge on it. I recorded pressures during the carbing process. This is how the data was generated. I also recorded pressures while pasteurizing the cider.

I recently bottled some lager I made. I also filled my gauge bottle and my lower pressure gauge bottle pegged at 35 PSI as that was the limit of the gauge. It probably ended up in the 40's, but no way to tell for sure.


When we bottle condition beer, we are really simulating force carbing like the keg folks do. We cause a ferment by adding sugar. This creates a high pressure in the bottle. CO2 doesn't like to dissolve in a warm liquid. We then put some bottles in the fridge. The temperature of the liquid drops and the CO2 then begins to dissolve in the liquid.

It seems to take several days at fridge temperatures for the CO2 to fully saturate the liquid for a maximum saturation for that liquid temperature.

While the CO2 is moving into the liquid, the pressure slowly drops. I've monitored this process as well with the pressure gauge.

Pressures go way higher than folks think while bottle conditioning. In the following data, I carbed sweet hard cider and stopped the carbing and then pasteurized the cider when the bottle was at 22 PSI. My Lager went above 35 PSI. The data doesn't show the extremes the pressure rises with beer as I stopped the cider at 22 PSI, but it would have continued if i hadn't stopped it.

The gauge bottle has a nice side effect, it tells you when your bottles are conditioned as the pressure rise stops. I then throw them in the Fridge to cold condition for several days before I open. The gauge also tells you when they are carbed as the pressure drop stops. Pretty basic really.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/bott...review-205862/

Quote:
Originally Posted by RukusDM View Post
No, when you bottle condition, the slight fermentation we cause by adding priming sugar just builds pressure up in the bottle. The pressures seem to go up into the 30's and 40's PSI from what I've seen.

The CO2 doesn't really move into the liquid until the temperature drops. Some CO2 may, but not the majority of it. CO2 doesn't dissolve into solution until a lower temperature.

This is really what we do when we force carb in a keg. We raise the pressure up when the beer is cold. The CO2 moves into the solution. The tap pressure is lowered for proper delivery and the beer either sets for cold aging, or it is consumed at that time.

What you would see with the pressure gauge (if you use one bigger than my first bottle had. Should use a 100 PSI Gauge) is that the pressure climbs over time and will level off.

Once the pressure levels off, that means all of the priming sugar has been used up by the yeast. Next, you put them into the fridge. You will see the pressure drop over several days. Eventually, it also will level off. I like to let them sit for a few more days after that, but really if the pressure stops dropping, all of the CO2 that can be dissolved at that temperature has been achieved.
.
I think it goes down to this.....is it worth playing Russian Roulette with your money and the time you spent bringing your brew along from grain to bottling day???

For every guy that says they do it, we have 2-3 guys who posts threads like "Growler goes Boom"

Like this-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Special Hops View Post
Don't do it. I used to and had a couple explode.
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:46 PM   #8
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Thanks for the input. I talked to a guy at a local brew shop and he said that you can bottle in a growler. You just need to use a specific cap. Which is these: http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/3...crew-caps.html
That cap won't make the glass in a growler be any more sturdy than it already is. Most growlers are simply not rated to withstand the psi/volumes of co2 that an Industry Standard 12 ounce bottle is rated for. A cap has nothing to do with the ability of the glass to not shatter thanks to the pressure.

You got bad advice from "the guy at the local brewshop."
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:51 PM   #9
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If the cap is the weak point, you could go with the 2 liter growlers with the flip-top ceramic lid.
Unfortunately, I'm new and not knowledgeable but I'm learning.

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Old 11-03-2012, 10:06 PM   #10
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If the cap is the weak point, you could go with the 2 liter growlers with the flip-top ceramic lid.
Unfortunately, I'm new and not knowledgeable but I'm learning.
If the cap was the weak point then the cap would fail before the glass breaks, but that's not the case. The weak point in most growlers is actually where the sides meet the base. My one experience priming in a growler was similar to the one in the "growler goes boom" thread linked above, where the base simply separated from the rest of they growler.
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