Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Last Sponsor Giveaway of the Year!

Come Enter the BrewDeals/FastFerment Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Bottling/Kegging > foamy tap beer
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-07-2013, 05:16 PM   #1
pmoneyismyfriend
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: , wisconsin
Posts: 78
Likes Given: 2

Default foamy tap beer

I have a kegerator with six taps, temp 33 degrees set at 11 psi with a brand new regulator. The taps are Perlick 525 CP, mounted through a collar, with 6ft of 3/16 beverage line. All my initial pours are too foamy for my liking, what I usually end up doing is relieving the pressure and then pouring, but what is the point of having taps through the collar, if I have to open the lid and purge the pressure, I may just as well have used picnic taps. For experimental purposes, I detached the tap line, of one of the foamier beers and hooked it up to a picnic tap with 6ft of line and got a perfect pour. Why should that make any difference?

__________________
pmoneyismyfriend is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-07-2013, 05:39 PM   #2
zachattack
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: , MA
Posts: 2,547
Liked 246 Times on 212 Posts
Likes Given: 138

Default

The fact that only the first pour is foamy tells you that either the beer is overcarbonated compared to your current pressure (CO2 comes out of the beer to equalize the pressure, and gas pockets build up in the line) or that the beer in the lines is warmer than the beer in the keg (warm beer holds less CO2, so again gas pockets develop in the lines).

You didn't tell us how you're carbing the kegs (of if they're homebrew or commercial) but chances are that it's just a temperature problem.

I get the impression that this is a chest freezer. Do you have a fan inside? Most of us have a small 12V PC fan mounted in the keezer to help circulate the cold air. Without it, you can easily see a 5-10 degree differential between the top and bottom of the freezer.

__________________
zachattack is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-07-2013, 06:20 PM   #3
cjhammel
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Springfield, VA
Posts: 57
Liked 8 Times on 6 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

If you are getting good pours with the picnic tap but not with the Perlick I would guess that your beverage line is to short. You do not have enough back pressure to keep the CO2 in suspension. I would suggest that you replace the 6ft line with a 12ft line. I do not have the link but do a search for beverage line calculator. This will tell you the length of line for a given pressure, temperature and diameter of line.

__________________
cjhammel is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-07-2013, 06:33 PM   #4
billl
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,971
Liked 282 Times on 238 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

11psi @ 33 degrees will give you a carb level of 2.74. So, you are overcarbed for most styles to start. If you are going to serve at 33 degrees, dial back the pressure to 7-8 psi.

Also, your 6 ft lines are too short to handle 10 PSI. Get 10 ft lines and you'll cut the foaming way down.

__________________
billl is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-07-2013, 06:36 PM   #5
zachattack
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: , MA
Posts: 2,547
Liked 246 Times on 212 Posts
Likes Given: 138

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjhammel View Post
If you are getting good pours with the picnic tap but not with the Perlick I would guess that your beverage line is to short. You do not have enough back pressure to keep the CO2 in suspension. I would suggest that you replace the 6ft line with a 12ft line. I do not have the link but do a search for beverage line calculator. This will tell you the length of line for a given pressure, temperature and diameter of line.
In general I'd agree that 6 feet of line is too short, but if only the first pour is foamy line length isn't the problem. Though shorter lines might be exacerbating the issue.

Chances are the picnic tap worked better because it stayed lower (colder) in the fridge. Or maybe OP hooked up the picnic tap then immediately poured a beer. Either way the beer wouldn't be sitting in the line up near the top of the keezer.
__________________
zachattack is offline
Brewerforlife Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-07-2013, 07:24 PM   #6
pmoneyismyfriend
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: , wisconsin
Posts: 78
Likes Given: 2

Default

Thanks for the responses, I am entertaining longer lines, but am going to try to dial the pressure back. To clarify, I don't have any of my lines attached to the top of the kegerator, all run from the out post, and are tucked down in side the kegerator, with the exception of about 6 inches, and actually my picnic tap lines are stored inside the collar portion of the kegarator, which would have them at a warmer temp. So like I said, the line length works for one but not the other, and you would think the warmer picnic line would create a foamier pour, but the opposite is true in my case.

__________________
pmoneyismyfriend is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-07-2013, 07:30 PM   #7
zachattack
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: , MA
Posts: 2,547
Liked 246 Times on 212 Posts
Likes Given: 138

Default

2.7 volumes is pretty standard for most commercial beers. If you like the carb level, no need to change it. Longer lines will probably help, and a PC fan will help as well.

I think picnic faucets also have higher resistance compare to a Perlick, but I'm not sure. That may explain what you're seeing.

Either way, lowering the pressure will probably increase the foaming for a while until the carb level comes down in the beer.

__________________
zachattack is offline
Brewerforlife Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-08-2013, 03:00 PM   #8
pmoneyismyfriend
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: , wisconsin
Posts: 78
Likes Given: 2

Default

I found this at brewersfriend.com, they have a temp/co2 vol calculator also.

British Style Ales 1.5 – 2.0 volumes
Belgian Ales 1.5 – 2.4 volumes
American Ales and Lager 2.2 – 2.7 volumes
Fruit Lambic 3.0 – 4.5 volumes
Porter, Stout 1.7 – 2.3 volumes
European Lagers 2.2 – 2.7 volumes
Lambic 2.4 – 2.8 volumes
German Wheat Beer 3.3 – 4.5 volumes

Beer Temperature: 38F

Keg Pressure: 21.7 PSI

Volumes of CO2: 3.50

Beer Line ID: 3/16” inside diameter plastic beer line

Beer Line Temperature: COLD (ideal)

Beer Line length: 6′

Beer Line Rise to Tap: 24”

Beer Line Length Formula:

L = (P -(H x .5) – 1 ) / R

Where:
L = length of beer line in feet
P = pressure set of regulator
H = total height from center of keg to faucet in feet
R = resistance of the line from the following table
1 = residual pressure remaining at faucet (this can be increased to 2 if you need to increase pressure to increase dispense rate)
Line Type: Resistance:
3/8” OD stainless beverage tubing .2
5/16” OD stainless beverage tubing .5
1/4” OD stainless beverage tubing 2
3/8” ID plastic beer line .11
5/16” ID plastic beer line .17
1/4” ID plastic beer line .7
3/16” ID plastic beer line 2.7

L = ( 21.7-(2 x .5)-1 ) / 2.7

L = 7.3 feet of beer line, or 7′ 4”

In this scenario the beer line length is too short, ideally one would have over 7′ of beer line to create enough resistance to counter the 21.7 PSI in the keg to obtain the volumes of CO2 for this German wheat beer. If you simply reduce the temperature of the beer to 33F and reduce the pressure to 18.3 PSI you will still achieve 3.50 volumes of CO2 in your beer, but the reduction in pressure will now not overwhelm the 6′ beer line that you have. Pressure and resistance are now balanced.

Now if I input my numbers L= (8-(2x.5)-1 /2.7 the result is 2.22 ft of line. This can't possibly be correct
__________________
pmoneyismyfriend is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-08-2013, 05:57 PM   #9
zachattack
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: , MA
Posts: 2,547
Liked 246 Times on 212 Posts
Likes Given: 138

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmoneyismyfriend View Post
This can't possibly be correct
That's the conclusion that most of us have come to re: line length calculations. They make many assumptions that render them close to irrelevant for home systems.

Remember that the only downside to a longer line is a slower pour. That's it. I like to think that if I can wait a month to brew, ferment and carbonate beer, I can wait an extra 5 seconds for a beer.

Most of us use 10-12 feet (assuming standard 3/16" vinyl tubing) an call it a day.
__________________
zachattack is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2013, 04:53 PM   #10
plumber_bob
Life gets in the way of brewing way too much!!!
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
plumber_bob's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Lebanon Jct., KY
Posts: 527
Liked 97 Times on 73 Posts
Likes Given: 271

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zachattack View Post
That's the conclusion that most of us have come to re: line length calculations. They make many assumptions that render them close to irrelevant for home systems.

Remember that the only downside to a longer line is a slower pour. That's it. I like to think that if I can wait a month to brew, ferment and carbonate beer, I can wait an extra 5 seconds for a beer.

Most of us use 10-12 feet (assuming standard 3/16" vinyl tubing) an call it a day.


What Zach said!!!

pb
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by LabRatBrewer View Post
I think I'd pass on that batch. (thats not how I was taught to sparge) :mug:
“When we drink, we get drunk.
When we get drunk, we fall asleep.
When we fall asleep, we commit no sin.
When we commit no sin, we go to heaven.
So, let’s all get drunk, and go to heaven!”
— Irish Toast

“If God had wanted us to filter our beer, he wouldn’t have given us livers” — Larry Bell
plumber_bob is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Foamy Keg beer i4ourgot Bottling/Kegging 10 01-07-2013 03:37 AM
Foamy beer 3/4 through a keg Galactik Bottling/Kegging 0 08-22-2012 04:27 AM
Foamy Beer?? szazman73 Bottling/Kegging 1 03-20-2012 06:47 AM
Very Foamy Beer PhelanKA7 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 13 03-19-2012 02:24 PM
Foamy Beer Chris_Dog Bottling/Kegging 6 10-24-2007 02:54 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS