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Old 06-26-2009, 01:42 AM   #1
moonbrew
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Default Do I need a fan in my keezer?

I finally got my two tap keezer finished last week. It's a Magic Chef 7.2 cf freezer with a Ranco controller set at 38 and a 6" collar. My kegging equipment is from Kegconnection.com and consist of two cornies, a double regulator, 10 lb tank, 5' of 3/16 beer line and Perlick taps.

I kegged two batches 4 days ago. One I force carbed and the other I set to forget. The force carbed batch was chilled, shook at 30 psi for 3 minutes, and left overnight. The next day I took it down to 12 psi and left it another two days.

Here is the problem... I'm getting way too much foam in my pour. I crack the tap nice and quick, but there seems to be alot of air in the line to start with.

I really dont think it is over carbed... if I take it down to 3 psi and pour it works ok with a trickle but it still tastes like it needs more co2.

If I run it up to 8 psi the first pour is mostly foam, and tastes flat when it settles. The second pour is great... 1" head and almost carbed enough.

That is when I started wondering if my lines are too warm. My Ranco is set at 38 with a 2 degree swing. Right now the probe is hanging in the air towards the top of the keezer but not as high as the collar. I have a refrigerator thermometer sitting on the top lip of the freezer resting on the inside of the collar and it reads 50 degrees. This is about where my lines are wound up on top of my cornies. I figure that after the first pour the lines are cold (same as the bottom of the cornie) and that might be why the second pour works better.

What do you guys think? Do I need better air circulation in the keezer to keep the lins cold or do I just need longer lines. I thought that if Kegconnection sold all their kits with 5' lines it should be OK. Or what about the epoxy mixing thingie. That will help slow the pour but it might not compensate for the warm or short lines will it?

I hate throwing away a bad first pour to get to a good second...

Thanks guys

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Old 06-26-2009, 02:23 AM   #2
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I would try more beer line...you are cutting it close W/ 5' IMO. If that dosn't help, I guess you could persue tower cooling.

One of the reasons I've stayed primitive w/ the picnic taps.

Also, it might take a few days for a keg to chill down to 38.

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Old 06-26-2009, 11:13 AM   #3
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Sounds like you need a fan to me. Put one in for a week (get a small desk fan and just put it anywhere to circulate the air) and see what happens. If it helps, you can make it permanent.

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Old 06-26-2009, 09:33 PM   #4
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Well, I put a fan in the keezer this morning. Now the temp in the top, at the collar, and the temp in the bottom are both the same. I Have new problems though. Now both the collar and the faucets are sweating (I didn't insulate the collar). The lines are defiantly cold now but it hasn't fixed my foaming problem... I have to pour a glass of foam to get to a good second pour. The other keg (the one I set to forget @ 12 psi) is starting to carb up now, its not there yet but its getting close. It pours fine on the first try. This makes me wonder about my force carbing methods. I still will probably order 10' lines and try the 48 hrs at 30 psi (without shaking) and then 12 psi for a week before I tap next time...

Thanks for your help guys

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Old 06-26-2009, 10:18 PM   #5
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10' lines not 5' is needed and sweating taps isn't a problem, in fact its saying the taps are cold and thats what you want.

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Old 06-26-2009, 10:54 PM   #6
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I'm having this problem as well (with some beer's and not with others?) 5' also.
If my tap is putting off allot of foam on the first poor I just bleed off 75% of the pressure from the keg from the release valve - fixed it, but pours really slow and gradually gets fuller as the keg refills with gas , i don't think that's a good solution , but it has worked as a temporary fix -

interested to know how to fix this as well ... ( er if the 10' of line works )

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Old 06-26-2009, 10:57 PM   #7
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I'll bet that what's happening is that you're getting CO2 coming out of solution when you back the pressure down from 30 to 12. I've had this happen if I set one a little to high and have to back it down and I don't bleed down the keg over time.

My solution is just to either do the set and forget method or prime them to whatever volume I want and then let them sit. I've never had good results with the shake method. Luckily I have enough beer made for this to work.

I also use 5ft lines and I get great pours up to 12-15 PSI.

Mike

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Old 06-26-2009, 11:13 PM   #8
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I'm sorry but 10' lines are by no means "needed". I have 5' lines and they work just fine. You need to really focus on balancing your kegging system now. That sounds like that's your biggest issue. Here's a good link for that:

Draft system line balancing

There's a lot of math involved, but you can basically find the same answers through trial and error. If 3 psi is too low for the serving, bring it up to 5. If that doesn't work, bring it up some more.

I personally have 5' line for all of my kegs and they're currently attached to picnic taps. A serving pressure right around 8-10psi works PERFECTLY for me. The upside of this, is that it will help keep the correct carbonation as well while not being poured at 40F.

As for carbing, I stick to a schedule of 30psi for 2 days and 20psi for 1. Although this does not give you "precision" control over the carbonation, it is perfect for me. After I'm done with the 20psi for one day, I'll bleed the pressure off and adjust the regulator to keep a pressure of 10psi. Should be carbed in 3 days and pour very nicely for you.

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Old 06-28-2009, 03:14 AM   #9
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Well fellas, I think I might have found my problem... I poured a few pints this evening and noticed that a lot of co2 is forming in my line after the pour. At first I thought this might be normal but then I noticed that it had not happened to the other keg, there is only beer in that line and I hadn't poured it all day. So, I pulled off enough beer to clear the lines and watched to see how long it would take for the co2 to gas out in the line... I noticed that there were small bubbles coming from the end of the hose at the fitting as if co2 were LEAKING into the line from around the dip tube somehow. I bled the pressure, removed the post, pulled the dip tube, replaced the o ring, put it back together... still had the same problem. I really think that the co2 is leaking past the dip tube into the line though. If I bleed the keg and give it just enough gas to push the beer out and then kill it again, it doesn't happen. But as soon as I give it the gas, it starts forming little bubbles into the line right out of the disconnect fitting.

Could my dip tube be bent somehow and not be seating right?

Could I have a bad post?

Have any of you guys seen this problem before?

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Kegged: BCS American Pale Ale, Blonde Ale
Primary: BCS American Pale Ale
Secondary: Air
Bottled: Janet's Brown Ale, Dry Stout, Irish Red Ale, Apfelwein
Gone:American Pale Ale, Irish Red Ale, Dry Stout, West Coast Red
Long Gone: Too much
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Old 06-28-2009, 03:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonbrew View Post
Well fellas, I think I might have found my problem... I poured a few pints this evening and noticed that a lot of co2 is forming in my line after the pour. At first I thought this might be normal but then I noticed that it had not happened to the other keg, there is only beer in that line and I hadn't poured it all day. So, I pulled off enough beer to clear the lines and watched to see how long it would take for the co2 to gas out in the line... I noticed that there were small bubbles coming from the end of the hose at the fitting as if co2 were LEAKING into the line from around the dip tube somehow. I bled the pressure, removed the post, pulled the dip tube, replaced the o ring, put it back together... still had the same problem. I really think that the co2 is leaking past the dip tube into the line though. If I bleed the keg and give it just enough gas to push the beer out and then kill it again, it doesn't happen. But as soon as I give it the gas, it starts forming little bubbles into the line right out of the disconnect fitting.

Could my dip tube be bent somehow and not be seating right?

Could I have a bad post?

Have any of you guys seen this problem before?
You're probably over carbing at 30 PSI and when you turn it down to 12 the excess CO2 comes out of solution and builds in the lines. I've seen this before in my system. It's Henry's Gas Law.

I've found the set and forget method to be the best to avoid this. But for this keg, take it off the gas and purge most of the pressure off. Let it sit off the gas. Repeat until you don't get bubbles anymore.

Mike
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Last edited by blk94f150; 06-28-2009 at 03:40 AM.
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