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Old 08-13-2012, 03:33 PM   #471
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I also don't like the potential for leaching from Acetal/Delrin. Yes I know the source materials are probably of high quality, and the food grade Delrin has the potential to be the same product, but with a guarantee. Industrial applications tend to buy the cheapest grades possible.

For those who are interested in a food grade product, I contacted Stamixco for some of their options. They have Polypropylene mixers which they recommend for food applications. They also have PTFE (Teflon) at a much higher price, but seriously if anyone is that worried, consider a new hobby.

The Polypropylene is 0.25" x 4" (6.35 mm x 101.6 mm) with 16 mixing elements.
http://www.stamixco-usa.com/products...r/default.html
(They have some really cool mixing stuff.)

I'm trying to find out if they have a min order quantity or price brackets <100. If the price is reasonable enough for me to order, I might be willing to put a group order together.

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Last edited by pelipen; 08-13-2012 at 06:27 PM. Reason: Polypro not polyeth.
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:59 PM   #472
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Originally Posted by pelipen View Post
They have Polypropylene mixers which they recommend for food applications. They also have PTFE (Teflon) at a much higher price, but seriously if anyone is that worried, consider a new hobby.
The teflon may be worth the extra money, or the delrin and the possible health effects. If polyproylene behaves the same in this application as it does in thermal underwear, it is a flavor/smell sponge. Just google 'polypro thermal underwear stink' if you have no first hand experience with this notorious property.
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Old 08-14-2012, 11:17 PM   #473
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Most gladware/ziplock tupperware type stuff is polypropylene, it's not that bad. Woven cloth has a ton more surface area to trap stuff compared to molded plastic. I'd say along with polyethylene, polypro is generally the food-safe plastic of choice.

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Old 08-14-2012, 11:23 PM   #474
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Most gladware/ziplock tupperware type stuff is polypropylene, it's not that bad. Woven cloth has a ton more surface area to trap stuff compared to molded plastic. I'd say along with polyethylene, polypro is generally the food-safe plastic of choice.
Vinyl hose is bad enough at absorbing flavors, I suspect the polypro mixers would be worse. As long as you don't run a light beer after a heavy one, you might not notice. The beer that sits in the line has a way of picking up quite a bit of flavor from the lines (and presumably these mixers), though. It makes pouring samples problematic as the most heavily flavorized part is what makes it into the sample.
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Old 08-15-2012, 12:02 AM   #475
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Why would you think polypropylene would hold more flavor than vinyl? I'm not trying to argue, just curious. I try to stay away from vinyl in food/beer applications.

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Old 08-15-2012, 11:45 PM   #476
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See three posts back- polypro is known for its smell trapping properties. I am not sure about it relative to vinyl. I was just guessing, which is why I said "I suspect" polypro>vinyl. It doubt it is any less than vinyl, which already holds/releases too much residual flavor, and plastic taste, for me.

A good sequence for correcting foam is:
Set the proper psi for the temp and vols of co2.
Check faucet/tower/shank temps and get them close to keg temps.
Start with at least the proper length of line. Add more if still foaming until the flow becomes an issue, or reduce length if no foam and flow is an issue.
Check all connections for possible cavitation/nucleation issues.
Decrease the serving temp and corresponding psi (and pour into a warmer glass, if you are one of those types).

Personally, I don't know why people go to all this trouble to have/fix short hose issues, especially if they are using vinyl tubing. Is there a short hose award I don't know about? If there is, the prize should be a Porsche.

I wouldn't mess around with any of this nonsense for normal beer pressures. I would just add a few more feet of accuflex bev-seal ultra barrier tubing. It is much smaller overall than vinyl and coils tightly, so 25ft shouldn't be a size issue. It also doesn't funk up the beer after long periods, or pick up flavors, so the longer length is better than a shorter length of vinyl.

The only thing I may try is some teflon rope/cord inserted into some larger barrier tubing (1/4", 3/8") to increase the surface area while still keeping the flow high and velocity low (another cause of foaming). Trying to serve soda and cider at ~30psi is problematic. Hopefully the SS Perlick flow control will be available soon.

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Old 08-16-2012, 12:09 AM   #477
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Thanks for the answer. I do use accuflex bev seal, and I haven't had any problems just using the line to balance the pressure. I just don't think it's fair to say polypropylene is known for its smell-trapping properties just because cloth woven out of it retains odor. Any synthetic underwear retains odor, but that doesn't mean that a solid piece of polypropylene will. Polyester, nylon, spandex underwear will do the same thing, yet polyester is also used in plastic soda and beer bottles and it cleans up just fine.

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Old 08-16-2012, 01:24 AM   #478
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Thanks for the answer. I do use accuflex bev seal, and I haven't had any problems just using the line to balance the pressure. I just don't think it's fair to say polypropylene is known for its smell-trapping properties just because cloth woven out of it retains odor. Any synthetic underwear retains odor, but that doesn't mean that a solid piece of polypropylene will. Polyester, nylon, spandex underwear will do the same thing, yet polyester is also used in plastic soda and beer bottles and it cleans up just fine.
If cloth not woven out of polypropylene doesn't trap odors, and cloth that is made of polypro does, I would say it is fair to assume that polypro is the cause.
There are other polyester thermal fabrics that are much, much better than polypro with respect to odor, but almost none better thermally. To be fair, I have read that some of it is related to bacteria living inside the fibers, which is why some impregnate polypro with silver to inhibit bacteria, but much of it is due to retention.

The polyester used in soda bottles is the same used to line bev-seal barrier line, PETE, which is specially formulated to resist permeability and flavor transfer. That is why I continually suggest that using longer lines of superior tubing is preferable to shorter lines of inferior tubing.

Having said that, I don't understand the desire to make a system with shorter lines, even when using barrier line, by adding complications into the mix. I suggest using the proper length of barrier line, even for a travel rig or sample tap. A 25ft coil is very manageable, and cleans easily. You could even ghetto rig a jockey box if needed.
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:24 PM   #479
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Fair enough. I just brought it up because I've had my fair share of stinky polyester underwear. But I have no experience with polypropylene clothing so maybe it's much worse. But it is about bacteria living in the fabric, which hopefully wouldn't be the case for a kegerator! Either way I agree with you. I have 20 foot coils and with a few zip ties they tuck in nicely.

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Old 08-16-2012, 05:39 PM   #480
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Quote:
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But it is about bacteria living in the fabric
It is partially about bacteria. Polypro itself retains odors. A side effect of its wicking property prevents oils (like stinky rancid BO ones) from being easily removed with detergents/soaps. The fibers provide a home for odor producing bacteria.

Only the odor trapping/transfer property would be in effect for keg lines, unless there was a sanitation issue. In that case, cleaning the mixer sticks might require special attention to ensure there is no residue on them harboring things. Critters in the lines is major cause of funky beer at bars.
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