Kegconnection Complete Starter Kit and More Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Bottling/Kegging > Conditioning and signs of carbonation

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-19-2009, 02:04 AM   #11
bull8042
I like 'em shaved
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
bull8042's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fort Mill, SC
Posts: 10,279
Liked 444 Times on 443 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conroe View Post
The Beer Flavor Wheel was developed in the 1970s by Morten Meilgaard. It was subsequently jointly adopted as the flavor analysis standard by the European Brewery Convention, the American Society of Brewing Chemists, and the Master Brewers Association of the Americas.
I am also sure it was developed to assist in identifying flavors of properly fermented and conditioned beers. It was never meant to identify "green" beer nor partially fermented wort for that matter.
__________________
"I brew with a water cooler and some part from the toilet." - JohnnyO

"I do gravity feed the last gallon or two through my Therminator, but I expect you could suck start a Volkswagen before you could suck start one of these. - GilaMinumBeer

"..... Bull was right." - TXCurtis
bull8042 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-19-2009, 02:24 AM   #12
Revvy
Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Revvy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: "Detroitish" Michigan
Posts: 40,804
Liked 2711 Times on 1629 Posts
Likes Given: 3484

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bull8042 View Post
I am also sure it was developed to assist in identifying flavors of properly fermented and conditioned beers. It was never meant to identify "green" beer nor partially fermented wort for that matter.
Conroe doesn't believe in green beers and he drinks most of his beers young...and he's happy with it....he also adds more yeast often a bottling time to hasten the process, pr Krausens which hastens the process, but is something that most of us don't do......especially the new brewer....I've given up trying to convert him

But your are right Bull....that chart is all fine and dandy after a beer has carbed and conditioned and has fully developed If you've passed a widnow of a few weeks to make sure the beer has finished doing what it needs to do, and you STILL have off flavors, then that chart is very usefull....but NOT for a beer that has been tasted TOO SOON.

Green beer is just a catchall phrase for a beer that is too young, it may be any of those flavors you have on that excellant chart BUT if they dissapear after a few weeks in the bottle, then it was because the beer needed some conditioning time, ergo, young or "green."

Because "green beer" aften has an off flavor, like one of those on the chart.....

If after a couple of months one of those flavors is still there, and has not decreased, then one could and should look at what they did in the recipe that might have caused it. EG infection, too high a fermentation temp, under pitched yeast, maybe too much chlorine in your brewing system, yadda yaddda yadda....

The point is that most of us, especially inexperienced brewers taste beer WAAY to early....they often do everything waay too earlier, then start an "is my beer ruined" or "my beer tastes funny" or "my beer's not carbed."

We tell them to be patient (which I know you aren't ) and 99% of the time they come back in a week, or two or three and say "you're right gang, the beer taste fine now...I guess I jumped the gun."

That's all....
__________________

Like my snazzy new avatar? Get Sons of Zymurgy swag, here, and brew with the best.

Revvy's one of the cool reverends. He has a Harley and a t-shirt that says on the back "If you can read this, the bitch was Raptured. - Madman

I gotta tell ya, just between us girls, that Revvy is HOT. Very tall, gorgeous grey hair and a terrific smile. He's very good looking in person, with a charismatic personality... he drives like a ****ing maniac! - YooperBrew

Revvy is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-19-2009, 02:42 AM   #13
Malticulous
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: St. George Utah
Posts: 4,027
Liked 48 Times on 39 Posts
Likes Given: 47

Default

I think after reading Randy Mosher's book I figured it out. Keeping your beer warmer makes them age faster. I live in the desert and not in the tundra like most in this forum do.

__________________

Last edited by Malticulous; 05-19-2009 at 02:59 AM.
Malticulous is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-19-2009, 07:24 AM   #14
Moose777
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Moose777's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Thousand Oaks CA
Posts: 545
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

I'm no expert but I've read you do not want your beer conditioning at hot temps..over say 80-85 degrees.

Also, make sure the beer has had a few days in the fridge to chill before you open it. This will help the clarity as well as the flavor.

__________________
Moose777 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-19-2009, 01:11 PM   #15
jkpq45
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 278
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conroe View Post
Green is a vague term and most of what it refers to should be gone before bottling anyway. It's so vague it's like saying you don't know why it tastes that way and simply blaming the age of the beer.
Hi Conroe,

Perhaps we misunderstood each other. I know exactly why young beer tastes bad--it's young. Revvy and others have more fully described what I dismissed as "green beer." The definition was hit square by Revvy in particular: "...a beer that is too young...."

If I had to define the taste of green beer with terms from the chart you referenced, I've sensed the following: sweet, metallic, carbonation (low), fruity, acetaldehyde, grassy, cooked vegetables, and leathery. Most (if not all) of these "off flavors" have disappeared after the beer has aged a bit. We're not talking about years here folks, just a few weeks.

Your beer deserves the patience of an additional week or two. If I wanted to drink beer with the above qualities, I'd buy a sixpack of Corona light, bake them in the sun for a few hours and drink them warm and flat. As it sits, I'll make my own beer and advise others to do the same using the two best ingredients I know--sanitation and patience.
__________________
Solstice Brewing Co.
Fine Beers, Wines, Meads and Ciders
Since 2007
jkpq45 is offline
mpfeil8484 Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-19-2009, 02:32 PM   #16
Malticulous
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: St. George Utah
Posts: 4,027
Liked 48 Times on 39 Posts
Likes Given: 47

Default

After a week of fermentation temps I have kept my fermenter at 70-80F (I don't pay that much attention to them after that.) I really do think at those higher temps the beer may age as much as twice as fast. It carbs much faster at those temps too (I regularly see complete carbonation in less than a week.) Yeast really like it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Mosher
"All the process of aging in beer are accelerated by heat."
I'm not sugesting cooking beer, just keeping it comfortable. I'm quite comfortable up to 85f and think beer is too. Long term storage is out of the question. Most beer is not meant to be aged anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Jackson
If you see a beer, do it a favor, and drink it. Beer was not meant to age
__________________
Malticulous is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-19-2009, 02:37 PM   #17
OrlandoHomeBrewer
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 51
Default

I give my bottles a minimum of three weeks. You won't be disappointed.

__________________
OrlandoHomeBrewer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-19-2009, 02:55 PM   #18
Revvy
Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Revvy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: "Detroitish" Michigan
Posts: 40,804
Liked 2711 Times on 1629 Posts
Likes Given: 3484

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Jackson
If you see a beer, do it a favor, and drink it. Beer was not meant to age
Tell that to Charlie Papazian....

In the Dec 07 Zymurgy He reviewed bottles of homebrew going back to the first AHC competition that he had stored, and none of them went bad, some had not held up but most of them he felt were awesome...We're talking over 20 years worth of beers.

Or Beer Advocate.

How To Store Beer

Or the New York Times

Beer Lovers Make Room for Brews Worth a Wait

Or the Belgians....

The Art of Aging Gracefully
Vintage Beers at Belgium's Beer Cafes


Quote:
Bottle conditioning--the practice of leaving live yeast in the beer when it is bottled--also makes beers good candidates for aging, since the yeast continues to develop the beers over time.

Aging and cellaring beer has grown very popular in the United States in perhaps the past ten years or so. Many good American beer bars now carry a few aged beers. The Map Room in Chicago, Brickskeller in Washington, D.C., Falling Rock Taphouse in Denver, Max's on Broadway in Baltimore and the Toronado in San Francisco usually have more than a handful, with about 50 or more at last count on the menu at the Brickskeller. There are a number of other places with good vintage selections.
Or Rogue, or Stone or any number of breweries who recommend cellaring their beers, and even release and have vertical tastings......

Once again we're talking new brewers and "my beer's not carbed, or taste like crap and I've only had it in the bottles for a week, or two, or three" in other words the majority of the threads on here on that topic. You know the ones I answer (about 5 or 6 a day)...It's the same facts each time....first batch opened under three weeks...

Now either every brewer f ups his first batch by following the directions...OR MORE LIKELY the issue in not a problem...but simple impatience...

and it usually is because about 60% of those threads end up with a followup a couple more weeks later saying everything is fine...the beer is carbed and tastes great....

And of all the rest...I've only seen ONE thread in the last year and a half I've been doing this, that the follow up was still un carbed, or nasty tasting (I cant recall)...I think it turned out to be bad seals on the grolsh type bottles he was using..
__________________

Like my snazzy new avatar? Get Sons of Zymurgy swag, here, and brew with the best.

Revvy's one of the cool reverends. He has a Harley and a t-shirt that says on the back "If you can read this, the bitch was Raptured. - Madman

I gotta tell ya, just between us girls, that Revvy is HOT. Very tall, gorgeous grey hair and a terrific smile. He's very good looking in person, with a charismatic personality... he drives like a ****ing maniac! - YooperBrew

Revvy is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-19-2009, 05:01 PM   #19
bull8042
I like 'em shaved
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
bull8042's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fort Mill, SC
Posts: 10,279
Liked 444 Times on 443 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

Good job Revvy. I can always count on you to back up your statements with fact.

__________________
"I brew with a water cooler and some part from the toilet." - JohnnyO

"I do gravity feed the last gallon or two through my Therminator, but I expect you could suck start a Volkswagen before you could suck start one of these. - GilaMinumBeer

"..... Bull was right." - TXCurtis
bull8042 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-19-2009, 05:13 PM   #20
kunstler
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 181
Liked 2 Times on 1 Posts

Default

When I starting brewing about a year ago I bought a true-brew ingredient kit after reading the instructions I thought "wow this takes alot less time than I would have figured" (based off of having a couple friends who brewed and from what they told me)

the instructions said to leave in Primary and generally it will be ready to bottle in 1 week (they said something like 4 days after it stops bubbling - not one mention about doing a hydrometer test other than "if you want to")

So my beer was in the primary it bubbled for 2 days and I started to count down the days till I could bottle. The instructions then said "let it age for 2 weeks in a dark spot like a closet and then you can move to fridge to age more or drink. Luckily when I mentioned to someone "yeah I brewed this weekend and then I'm going to bottle this week" I was given the "oh no you got to let it sit" explanation of bottle bombs and quality and all that - I did and I was happy....4 weeks after I expected to taste the beer, but I was happy none the less.


whats the point in the story?

two fold - we've all been there...we've all had our first batch - everyone's got to start somewhere so go easy on those that are scared...its a journey into the unknown for them and its kind of exciting.

The other reason is this when you buy an ingredient kit like the true brew kits...there is no real emphasis on the longer you let it sit the better it will get.

Some beers I will drink 2 weeks after brew day (force carbed and if it was a quick fermentation) but I also know before that first sip, it may taste funny, or it may taste great and that in another 2 months this beer may taste the same or it may taste even better.

we've all had to start some where and they all will learn eventually they just need to learn so lets not get upset that they are impatient or that they ask a million questions or that they make outrageous claims...just take your own advice "be patient" only be patient with the newbs.

relax its beer...drink up and enjoy

__________________
kunstler is offline
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
No Signs of Carbonation after 2 months! dennisowens41 General Techniques 10 07-28-2010 04:31 PM
Carbonation/Conditioning Temperature JMack Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 4 04-22-2009 06:20 PM
Any signs of carbonation? talkingmonkey Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 6 06-22-2008 02:40 AM
Signs of carbonation Conan Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 7 04-29-2008 08:53 PM
Bottle Conditioning, Low Carbonation sonvolt Bottling/Kegging 8 03-13-2006 10:50 PM