Brand new EZ flip-cap bottles not carbonating!

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Telix

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I recently picked up 2x12 packs of 500ml flip-cap bottles from the LHBS. I bottled my first batch of hard cider in them, and every bottle was pretty much flat. I assumed it was a mistake on my part during the bottling process - too little corn sugar or something. However, I recently bottled an IPA, and used 3 of the flip-caps, 2 12 ounce bottles, and my Tap-A-Draft jug. After 5-6 days I had a 12 ounce bottle and it was as fizzy as could be, and awesome. A few days later I opened up a flip-cap bottle and it was really undercarbonated and disappointing.

Why would this happen? The gaskets look brand new and the hinges latch close quite tightly. Can I replace the gaskets with higher quality ones that will hold a seal? I'm really surprised at how much these sucked out of the box..

These are essentially identical to what I bought: http://mountainhomebrew.com/ezcapbottleamber16ozcase.aspx
 
Nevers a long time....

How long are you waiting to declare that they aren't carbed. The three weeks at 70 degrees that we recommend as a rule of thumb is just for gravities below 1.060, I have had stouts and porters take 6-8 weeks to carb, and a 1.090 belgian strong took three months....

So depending on the gravity of the cider, and how long you actually wait, and at what temp you store them at it is really hard to tell.

It is highly unlikely that brand new seals on flip tops have actually failed. I would look at other reasons...and I've usually found that those "reasons" are simply the bottler not waiting long enough. :D

If you are interested, read this; Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. It discusses the carb process in detail.
 
I wrote this in a similar thread about Grolsch bottles recently.

How do you know that you have leaky seals as opposed to just not having all of the batch of beer carbed up yet? Did you actually test the seals? or is it simply because some bottles are carbed and others aren't?

Often when a batch is not fully carbed, it's usually, just that ALL the bottles weren't ready yet, simple as that. Each bottle is it's own little microcosm, and they are all going to come to come up to carb in their own sweet time. You're dealing with yeast, a living microrganism and since it's alive it has it's own agenda.

When we say 3 weeks at 70 degrees, we say that that's usually the average minimum time it's going to takes.

If if bottles aren't ready by then, then you just gotta wait some more.

I've had beers that have taken 6-8 weeks before they were all carbed up. My Belgian strong took 3 months.

True you do have the variable of them being flippies, BUT if you bought them brand new it is unlikely that you got bad seals....it's possible, but I doubt it....

If you haven't already popped those bottles to test them, rather than rebottling them I would get a few latex gloves, cut off the fingers and use those over the seals on the bottle, stretching it down below the entire flipper mechanism (with large or extra large gloves the thumb, index and middle fingers work the best without tearing.)

Then I would shake those bottles to resuspend the yeast and stick them in a warm place for a couple weeks....if the "balloons" look like the have expanded the you might have leaks but if it doesn't AND you come back to the bottles and they are carbed, then more than likely those bottles were simply not ready yet, and may have been completely carbed up eventually anyway.

My experience has been that most carbonation problems are lack of patience and nothing is usually wrong. Although you do have more of a risk of actually having problem with the seals then if you were using crown caps...BUT having never bought brand new flippies AND never having replaced the seals on mine, I have NEVER had any leaky seals I have had fine carbonation over 5 or 6 bottling uses.. So I'm going to lean towards the not being done.

I write extensively about bottle carbonation here Revvy's Blog, Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning.

But i the future when you bottle with these babies, you could consider doing some quality control by grabbing a few bottles out of a batch at random and using the "balloon method" on them to double check.

In fact I would mark these bottles with a grease pencil or piece of tape, and then make sure to balloon these as well as a dozen random samples from the bottles that you know worked fine....

Hope this helps. :mug:

You might give my rubber glove idea some thought.
 
I know you clearly are experienced and post frequently here, but trust me, the cider never carbonated. It's been in the bottle for a few months now. I just opened one up last week and it was flat as a pancake. It was pretty low gravity, about a 6% cider if I recall correctly.

The IPA was 1.062, and I had a VERY well carbonated (fizzy, really, I overcarbed a bit) 12 ounce bottle after 5 days.

I've read plenty of other accounts about gaskets that look fine leaking, so I don't know why you want to push back against what I'm experiencing.
 
I wrote this in a similar thread about Grolsch bottles recently.

You might give my rubber glove idea some thought.

I just bought a bunch of neoprene gloves for working on my moped, I'll definitely test this out just to remove variables.
 
I've read plenty of other accounts about gaskets that look fine leaking, so I don't know why you want to push back against what I'm experiencing.

I'm not trying to "push back"...I'm just trying to make sure ALL bases are covered...in my "considerable experience" these issues ARE operator error, and MOST new brewers (which I don't know YOUR level of experience) are unaware of the basic issue of patience. Like I have said, 99% of the time it is simply impatience, but that doesn't mean YOUR isn't different.

And I'm just trying to help.

Good luck

:mug:
 
Good luck

:mug:

Cheers, I know you're just trying to help! I'll report back on the shake + glove test and give the other EZ-capped bottles another 2 weeks before I even pop them. The Tap-A-Draft jug is just about ready to hit the fridge anyway.

:mug:
 
I've had new swings that had bale wires that didn't crimp down tight enough. Just needed a quick tweak with pliers.
 
Some people also reported on here with their EZ-cap that the tolerances aren't great with the chinese production, and that on the neck there were raised "ridges" that actually kept the bale from being fully seated/sealed. They solved this by sanding the ridges down.

I searched for the old thread but without success.
 
I put gloves on 3 flip-cap bottles on Tuesday night, and put a rubber band under the hardware as tight as I could manage. I think that the two ambers, which had just been bottled Sunday night, are showing some mild inflation. If I squeeze the gloves a bit they certainly feel like they have some air in them, and I made sure to squeeze out everything I could. I'm not sure how much they would fill if they were leaking CO2 badly, however - I've never "capped" a bottle with a balloon or anything to see what would happen.
 
I have not heard a lot of good about the store bought "flippers". I have them too and got about 30% to carbonate. Put simple, they suck. Mine will eventually go out with the recycling. Grolsch flippies work very well.
 
There are seams in the plastic tops from the mold.Sand these seams smooth and your problems will be gone.
 
There are seams in the plastic tops from the mold.Sand these seams smooth and your problems will be gone.

I don't understand how the mold lines on the plastic tops could affect the carbonating - the rubber seals squish into place, the little mold lines don't touch the lip of the bottle at all!

I'll give one or two sanded ones a shot next batch I guess.
 
Just bend the bale a bit with some pliers until you get a good, snug fit. Nothing to do with seams or seals; just poor manufacturing tolerances.
 
Just bend the bale a bit with some pliers until you get a good, snug fit. Nothing to do with seams or seals; just poor manufacturing tolerances.

I took a look at the bottles tonight and tried to figure out what I would bend... what part are you suggesting I bend, and how, to make it tighter? It certainly FEELS quite snug right now.
 
A real easy test would be to put a few ounces of vinegar in a test bottle. Take a napkin, and put 1/4tsp of baking soda near one edge. Roll the napkin like you're wrapping a burrito, with the small pile of baking soda in the center. Roll it tight enough that it will fit through the mouth of the bottle. Push the napkin burrito into the bottle, quickly seal the flip-top, and submerge the bottle in a few inches of water in the kitchen sink. It will take a few seconds for the vinegar to wet through the napkin and react with the baking soda producing CO2. If you get bubbles coming from the cap, the bottle/seal is faulty.
 
A real easy test would be to put a few ounces of vinegar in a test bottle. Take a napkin, and put 1/4tsp of baking soda near one edge. Roll the napkin like you're wrapping a burrito, with the small pile of baking soda in the center. Roll it tight enough that it will fit through the mouth of the bottle. Push the napkin burrito into the bottle, quickly seal the flip-top, and submerge the bottle in a few inches of water in the kitchen sink. It will take a few seconds for the vinegar to wet through the napkin and react with the baking soda producing CO2. If you get bubbles coming from the cap, the bottle/seal is faulty.

Hah, cool idea. I'll see what happens with that.
 
I'd be very careful doing that. sounds just as likely to explode as anything else.

Good call. Those ez-cap bottles are EXTREMELY thick, however, so a bit of vinegar/baking soda might not be too tough... blurgh it shouldn't have to be this complicated.
 
No. As long as you stick to my amounts (1/4tsp), you should generate somewhere between 9-17PSI of gas pressure in a 16oz bottle as long as you 4oz or less of vinegar (you only need ~1oz). The bottles are being exposed to twice that pressure when bottle conditioning; you need the quick rise-time of CO2 pressure to really test the seals.
 
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